[bluemonday]

Manx Radio News Article

Quote

Michael Moyle has expressed concern at the number of hangings by men in the Isle of Man and warned the community should steel itself for more deaths.

[thebees]

Modern life is rubbish and disposable, that coupled with a society which is hugely discriminatory and unfair is bound to make people want out. People do not believe all the 'hell fire and damnation in purgatory" for taking your own life any more, which makes it easier to just say "fuck this, I'm outta here".

[Kopmatt09]

thebees, on Dec 17 2009, 11:32 AM, said:

Modern life is rubbish and disposable, that coupled with a society which is hugely discriminatory and unfair is bound to make people want out. People do not believe all the 'hell fire and damnation in purgatory" for taking your own life any more, which makes it easier to just say "fuck this, I'm outta here".

I think the Island's quite significant drink and drugs problems have something to do with it. That and the 'bury your heads in the sand' attitude of most people towards the issue. Oh, and all the money that our government throws at the financial services in comparison to the money they're prepared to put into the health services needed to stop this problem.

The mental health service on the Island is chronically under-funded and massively under-resourced.

[bendytoy]

Kopmatt09, on Dec 17 2009, 11:44 AM, said:

thebees, on Dec 17 2009, 11:32 AM, said:

Modern life is rubbish and disposable, that coupled with a society which is hugely discriminatory and unfair is bound to make people want out. People do not believe all the 'hell fire and damnation in purgatory" for taking your own life any more, which makes it easier to just say "fuck this, I'm outta here".

I think the Island's quite significant drink and drugs problems have something to do with it. That and the 'bury your heads in the sand' attitude of most people towards the issue. Oh, and all the money that our government throws at the financial services in comparison to the money they're prepared to put into the health services needed to stop this problem.

The mental health service on the Island is chronically under-funded and massively under-resourced.

I couldn't agree more, Kopmatt09. My personal experience with the mental health service - massive waiting lists, misdiagnoses, clueless locums, SSRIs as the answer to everything - has left me with very little confidence in it. And I suspect I'm one of the lucky ones.

[thebees]

Drink and drugs are only a problem because people do not understand enough about addiction. Drink is a depressant anyway but society (the tv, radio etc etc) portrays the bottom of a bottle as the best place to search for answers to problems which are really quite superficial when compared to not having enough food, clothing and warmth. People have forgotten to count their blessings and choose to dwell on crap like not having Sky movies and a Subaru Imprezza (or whatever 'japcrap' they cannot function without)

[We Like The Moon]

drink or drugs debt etc aren't the only reason people hang themselves - you get yourself in a bit of bother and your name goes in the paper - even before you have been to trial to be found innocent or guilty. You are bailed to a shitty bedsit where you are on curfew from 7pm to sit on your own and think about how it has all gone wrong. You have lost your home, you have lost your family and will probably lose your job- and you think that people are talking about you every time you leave the house. So one day you get up and think that there is nowhere to turn, this is a small Island and mud sticks - you will never be able to hold your head up high, so you go and get a scart plug, hang it over the door - stand on table - make a few phonecalls and then step off - game over -

That is my personal experience with a family suicide.

[Chinahand]

thebees, on Dec 17 2009, 11:32 AM, said:

Modern life is rubbish and disposable, that coupled with a society which is hugely discriminatory and unfair is bound to make people want out. People do not believe all the 'hell fire and damnation in purgatory" for taking your own life any more, which makes it easier to just say "fuck this, I'm outta here".

My goodness Bees - human life isn't rubbish or disposable. And the most important thing for any suicide to think about isn't hell fire and damnation but the people they will leave behind.

Suicide won't end pain, just increase it, most often in the children, mothers, spouses, and family of the victim.

We can all start our lives again. Pain and mental anguish are real things, but that crisis of emotion isn't eternity, or even anything like the years that a family will spend asking why.

If life is that tough then start it again, don't end it.

That is a message that should be made loud and clear to people, rather than diminishing life's value.

The cult of suicide in current society is evil, pure evil. And massively damaging to thousands upon thousands of people, not only the victims, but all those connected with them.

People may feel isolated, and in despair, but trully in the grand scheme of life that is a moment. Use those flames to anneal youself stronger not to nullify your worth.

[Grouchobear]

Chinahand, on Dec 17 2009, 12:40 PM, said:

thebees, on Dec 17 2009, 11:32 AM, said:

Modern life is rubbish and disposable, that coupled with a society which is hugely discriminatory and unfair is bound to make people want out. People do not believe all the 'hell fire and damnation in purgatory" for taking your own life any more, which makes it easier to just say "fuck this, I'm outta here".

My goodness Bees - human life isn't rubbish or disposable. And the most important thing for any suicide to think about isn't hell fire and damnation but the people they will leave behind.

Suicide won't end pain, just increase it, most often in the children, mothers, spouses, and family of the victim.

We can all start our lives again. Pain and mental anguish are real things, but that crisis of emotion isn't eternity, or even anything like the years that a family will spend asking why.

If life is that tough then start it again, don't end it.

That is a message that should be made loud and clear to people, rather than diminishing life's value.

The cult of suicide in current society is evil, pure evil. And massively damaging to thousands upon thousands of people, not only the victims, but all those connected with them.

People may feel isolated, and in despair, but trully in the grand scheme of life that is a moment. Use those flames to anneal youself stronger not to nullify your worth.

this is a hugely sad topic, and I cannot for one moment understand what torture people driven to this must be going through and the resultant hell for their surviving family and friends. I have nothing to add other than my express sympathy for anyone affected by this horror.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Chinahand - those who feel suicidal, I wouldn't have thought, are those who might have a good frame of mind to consider other people's feelings and thoughts. If they feel so shit and feel so bad it is difficult to see them as being really selfish and as such doing the wrong thing.

Life itself isn't previous or wonderful when there is nothing worth living for and when there is no hope of a better life.

This post has been edited by La_Dolce_Vita: 17 December 2009 - 01:11 PM

[VinnieK]

Chinahand, on Dec 17 2009, 12:40 PM, said:

My goodness Bees - human life isn't rubbish or disposable. And the most important thing for any suicide to think about isn't hell fire and damnation but the people they will leave behind.

I would imagine that most do think of those they'll leave behind, how could they not? But it's a testament to their pain and the apparent hopelessness of their situation that those who go through it do so.

Quote

We can all start our lives again. Pain and mental anguish are real things, but that crisis of emotion isn't eternity, or even anything like the years that a family will spend asking why.

If life is that tough then start it again, don't end it.

A bit easier said than done though, don't you think? A lot of people who end up committing suicide or attempting it do so from being subject to long term emotional strain, sometimes relating to horrific personal circumstance that seem, and sometimes are, inescapable for the foreseeable future. The whole point of suicide is that it's a final resort, where every other avenue seems closed off and 'starting again' is for one reason or another an impossibility or unlikely to help (such as when dealing with a legacy of emotional and physical trauma).

Suicidal impulses strike when a human is at their very lowest point and in an unbalanced state, true dark night of the soul stuff where the hopelessness of the situation is overwhealming. It's so much more than a simple case of life being tough and varies incredibly from individual to individual. It demands a great deal more individual understanding and compassion than a generic message about starting over, which, sadly, might not even be that realistic a proposition in a number of cases.

[Chinahand]

VinnieK, on Dec 17 2009, 01:26 PM, said:

Chinahand, on Dec 17 2009, 12:40 PM, said:

If life is that tough then start it again, don't end it.

A bit easier said than done though, don't you think?

VinnieK the meme of suicide spreads on the idea that its all hopeless and so the easiest way out. I want to counter that. If a person is about to attempt to kill them selves then the way to start their life again is not to go through with it - I cannot say that is easier said than done - to do it is vital. Suicide is NOT painless, quite the opposite.

[censorship]

It is a tragic and important subject.
Whilst I don't have any facts and figures to support this, and am basing my opinion on reports in the local news and Mr Moyles' comments, it does appear a disproportionate number of young men are choosing to end their lives.
Maybe it is debt, addiction, misdiagnosed mental health issues, appearing in court, or any of many more possible reasons. Whatever a person's reason, the Island appears to be failing them, possibly because mental health services are under-resourced and over-stretched, possibly because there is still a stigma, possibly because of a lack of awareness of what support there is available.
I don't know, but I do think someone should be trying to find out before any more lives are lost (I appreciate some people will choose this option regardless, but there may be others who can be assisted).
Perhaps our parliament would like to set up an investigation into a very real, but possibly fixable problem, a problem which is costing the Island in financial terms, as well as many people in emotional terms.
That's if they can find time to look into it once they finished with the really important stuff, like dog walking in Langness, paying the TV licence fee and so on.

[VinnieK]

Chinahand, on Dec 17 2009, 01:36 PM, said:

VinnieK the meme of suicide spreads on the idea that its all hopeless and so the easiest way out. I want to counter that. If a person is about to attempt to kill them selves then the way to start their life again is not to go through with it - I cannot say that is easier said than done - to do it is vital. Suicide is NOT painless, quite the opposite.

I disagree. It's not about being the victim of a 'meme', itself a concept so crude as to be useless in such a complex situation, nor is it the result of some hypothesised culture of suicide. If you can't imagine things being so bad, a situation so intractable that such feelings of sheer desperation and hopelessness are sincere then bully for you, but don't for a moment assume everyone's in the same position.

I'm sorry, but in the context of the individual tragedy that is suicide the message that life isn't hopeless and that people can always start again amount, at least in my opinion, to empty platitudes and ignores most of the issues by blaming everything on the simplistic and pseudoscientific notion of memes, whilst speaking about the pain of family members hints at emotional blackmail. The fundamental mistake here is that by the time someone's seriously considering suicide, they've already gone beyond the point where such basic appeals to hope and sentimentality have any worth.

[thebees]

Sorry China, I didnt mean life is disposable or rubbish, full stop. Modern life is rubbish, the cliche surmounting to we have so much crap in our lives we have lost sight of what really matters. Disposable life, is more of a perception, you know? like sending kids off to fight wars, burning shoes because they are 'fake' when kids all over the world have no shoes, these things do not give the impression of precious lives.

[Vulgarian]

bendytoy, on Dec 17 2009, 12:11 PM, said:

My personal experience with the mental health service - massive waiting lists, misdiagnoses, clueless locums, SSRIs as the answer to everything - has left me with very little confidence in it. And I suspect I'm one of the lucky ones.

From experience I certainly agree on the point of waiting lists for mental health services being too long. Being told, after you have plucked up the courage to ask for help, that you have to wait over 6 months for professional help, it is little wonder that the suicide rate on the Isle of Man is so high. Waiting this long for treatment of any other problem would not be tolerated by the public, and i think this is partly to do with society's attitude toward mental health in general.

VinnieK, on Dec 17 2009, 01:26 PM, said:

A bit easier said than done though, don't you think? A lot of people who end up committing suicide or attempting it do so from being subject to long term emotional strain, sometimes relating to horrific personal circumstance that seem, and sometimes are, inescapable for the foreseeable future. The whole point of suicide is that it's a final resort, where every other avenue seems closed off and 'starting again' is for one reason or another an impossibility or unlikely to help (such as when dealing with a legacy of emotional and physical trauma).

That might be true in some cases, but i think in the majority of cases where people are having suicidal thoughts their problems are treatable, but their depression makes them feel there is no way out.