60 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Chinahand said:

Even such New Labour stalwarts as Jack Straw admitted the South Asian community had a problem in its attitudes to women with very different reactions to purity, virtue etc depending upon the race of the woman involved. 

If you wish to squash all the complexity of an issue into black and white then Woolley is more right than Richard Britten, but the racialised reporting of sex crimes in the press is very distorting.

I'd love to know the statistics - who are more likely as a percentage of their ethnic group, once weighted for things like education, poverty etc, to groom and abuse.

I suspect the difference will be close to the margin of error, while Woody would claim a huge cultural divide.  

Sure the reporting of sex crimes in the UK is very distorted by the UK right-wing press, which is to say pretty much all of it, to give a racial slant. Unfortunately that has the effect of actually dictating the public perspective i.e. if they only report on crime from an ethnic standpoint Joe Public will think only ethnics commit crime.

However there is no escaping the fact that the background of a lot of, say, those from Pakistan is essentially stone-age ideals where women are merely chattels to be subjugated, used and abused at will.

Unfortunately, in my opinion anyway, the only folks who can tell you if this has had a bearing or not are the perpetrators of these quite appalling crimes.

I do know that once the scale and sheer horror of what was going on came to light it absolutely shocked the police and social services in Rochdale. They were mortified to find out how so much had just passed them by. But hell, everyone has 20/20 hindsight so why not just rip into them with the usual accusations of incompetence, corruption, cover-ups and so forth?

They, like the victims, will have to live with the whole horror story. I wonder if the abusers care...?

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Of course it's the same reactionary press and people who tar all Asians and muslims with the same derogatory brush who described the victims as feral, and by sexually derogatory terms, that meant they weren't treated or recognised as victims but labelled as wayward young women who were no better than they ought to have been and deserved what they received.

its these white conservative patriarchal attitudes that delayed and disrupted recognition of the problem and delayed prosecution and exposed some of the girls to several years more abuse.

opposite sides of the same intolerant coin.

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8 hours ago, P.K. said:

 

I do know that once the scale and sheer horror of what was going on came to light it absolutely shocked the police and social services in Rochdale. They were mortified to... Etc. Etc. 

You make this sound as if the whole affair appeared from the ether, as if there was a shock horror moment for the police and social services. The fact is that all the statements were there for years, given by the victims, who happened to be vulnerable children who were continuously denied protection by both departments. It took the appointment of the new, Chief Crown Prosecutor for the North-west of England, Nazir Afzal (the hero of the moment), a muslim man himself, to study the cases and decide to bring proceedings. You can read his statements on the affair anywhere online. The fear of offending some areas of the 'Asian community' took precedent over the plight of the victims for quite some time: accusations that the was an organised ring of offenders date back to the 90's. And not just in Rochdale.

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4 minutes ago, quilp said:

You make this sound as if the whole affair appeared from the ether, as if there was a shock horror moment for the police and social services. The fact is that all the statements were there for years, given by the victims, who happened to be It took the appointment of the new, Chief Crown Prosecutor for the North-west of England, Nazir Afzal (the hero of the moment), a muslim man himself, to study the cases and decide to bring proceedings. You can read his statements on the affair anywhere online. The fear of offending some areas of the 'Asian covulnerable children who were continuously denied protection by both departments.mmunity' took precedent over the plight of the victims for quite some time: accusations that the was an organised ring of offenders date back to the 90's. And not just in Rochdale.

No, I don't make it sound as if this whole affair appeared from the ether. That's just your interpretation for whatever agenda you want to pursue. As I have already posted there was no agenda that "fear of offending some areas of the 'Asian covulnerable children who were continuously denied protection by both departments.mmunity' err whatever that means...? IMHO you have completely misunderstood  the breadth of what took place simply overwhelmed those charged to deal with such appalling depravity. So what is your agenda?

Blamestorming, from an armchair, would be my guess.

Pathetic ....

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You're an idiot. What possible agenda would I be pursuing? The grooming was known for years. The various services were stultified by the perceived risk of being seen as racist or islamophobic. This is written. It was not some great shock to the system as you claimed in your previous post. They knew what was going on.  

Edited by quilp
Exasperation...

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Yes, Quilp, they did. But it wasn't the fear of offending the Muslim community that stopped action it was the prevailing view that the girls were feckless, feral,  sluts who couldn't be relied upon to be good witnesses.

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Oh, I see, so the not inconsiderable amount of statements by people involved who declared that cultural sensitivity and fear of accusation played a large part in the procrastination of the authorities were all talking out of their arses, then? 

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17 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Yes, Quilp, they did. But it wasn't the fear of offending the Muslim community that stopped action it was the prevailing view that the girls were feckless, feral,  sluts who couldn't be relied upon to be good witnesses.

not from what i have read, the view of the girls may of played a small part but its the failings of social workers, council management, support services, the police and the cps who are to blame... 

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That's not what the statements and evidence of the original sexual heath workers who first reported, or the parents who drew their concerns to the attention of social services, or the original officer in charge of investigations in 2005 and 2008 detail. And it was evidence given to the Westminster Select Committee and statements repeated on BBC by them in interviews, including Woman's Hour.

 

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As I understand it there was no new evidence when the new CPS prosecutor, himself a Muslim, overturned the decision not to prosecute. He is on record as saying that the original decision not to prosecute was down to concerns about the weight that would be given to the evidence to be given by the girls, he felt they should be respected and would be believed.

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While we are playing the guessing game...

Guess about this one...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/06/britains-worst-paedophile-richard-huckle-handed-23-life-sentence/

 

"One of Britain's worst paedophiles, who posted on the so-called "dark web" as he abused up to 200 Malaysian children, has been handed 22 life sentences.

Freelance photographer Richard Huckle, from Ashford in Kent, admitted an unprecedented number of offences against children aged between six months and 12 years from 2006 to 2014.

Judge Peter Rook QC gave the 30-year-old ordered him to serve a minimum term of 25 years.

A stream of pictures and videos of his rapes and assaults on children were shared with paedophiles worldwide through the now defunct dark website TLZ - The Love Zone.

He even tried to make a business out of his horrific crimes by crowd-funding the release of the images and was compiling a paedophile's manual at the time of his arrest by the National Crime Agency."

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I don't think there's any empirical evidence that child sex abusers come from any one racial, ethnic, social or religious background disproportionately to their presence in the general population.

There is some tenuous evidence that Pakistani muslims who commit those offenses do so in groups and every other background tend to be solo offenders, but it's not hard and fast.

What is interesting is differential reporting, by the media.

There is very good reason for justice being portrayed blindfold. It's because it's dangerous to start with preconceptions, preconceptions tend to contribute to miscarriages of justice.

Theres no difference, in my mind, between preconceptions about the girls or the perpetrators, each are dangerous and let down the victims, justice, society and humanity.

each case on its facts.

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