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Far too simplistic PK, almost like the guy on R4 this morning who almost said that 1 death from covid is 1 too many, and that if anyone at all dies from it it shows the government response has been incompetent. Was it you? In any public health crisis decisions have to be made that consider the greater good as the outcome, not 'all deaths can be avoided'. On a weekly basis here I'm seeing patients who are far worse off than they would have been if we'd have not had a hospital lock down. And I'm a glorified carpenter, and the IOM position with regard to getting back to routine healthcare is far better than yours. Colleagues in other specialties, particularly in the UK, are seeing patients who are literally going to die, from cancer for example, because covid prevented them being treated in a timely fashion. My own mother could have been in that situation - back in March she was given the option of surgery (but we're worried about covid so perhaps don't!) or putting off treatment until god knows when, by which time she may have been incurable. Fortunately she had the benefit of my surgical mentality advising her to 'just cut it out' and it's all been fine. Others have not been so lucky. So there are going to be increased fatalities whatever you do. You may consider them all to be unnecessary, like the guy on R4 who thought nobody should die, ever. But it ain't that simple, and people that don't agree with you don't necessarily have 'issues' as you so snidely put it.

I don’t know that - why are you assuming it? Is it because you’re assuming that immunity = antibody levels? Immune system’s a bit more complex than that. And what immune mechanisms are getting driven by an effective vaccine that won’t be activated by an actual infection with a whole virus, as opposed to bits of one or altered ones? Herd immunity is absolutely what is needed here - it’s working out the best way of getting it while protecting the vulnerable, and maintaining core health services and infrastructure that is the issue. Or perhaps I’m as stupid as Bozo too? PS I’m also going to the pub in a bit, to see some live music.

As much use as lining up on the beach and trying to hold back the tide.

Out of your depth there fella.

Why would anyone want to be an MHK next time round. Like most CM’s before him Quayle will just leave a very large shovel behind in his office. Yet another CM who has changed nothing and achieved nothing. I expect more than a few bail outs. It seems to me that the last few administrations just kick the big problems down the road. Unfortunately now we have the mother of all problems ( although this one not their fault ) and Quayle will do zilch and leave for the next administration to sort out. Apparently the tax payer is going to bail out hotels over the winter now. Why ? Who will come stay in them even when the IOM opens. Lots of hotels on the market now and let’s face would you stay in them or eat in them. I would not so let them go to the wall. Why should we bail them out?

The Steam Packet shouldn't need subsidies. If they have spare capacity, they should price and market those periods and sailings so as to encourage more use of them, but they shouldn't need to be paid to do so. The Company has been pretty useless at this for as long as I can remember - the cash cows of the TT and the freight charges meant that they didn't really have to do anything to make big profits and they could just slumber away doing the same thing year to year without change and without reacting to changing conditions over and during the year. Maybe the experience of this year will spur them into more creativity when things get back to normal, but the fact that people are hoping for more innovation because they have been taken over by the Isle of Man Government, shows you how sluggish they have been in the past.

Well, if it does that to a man as reasonable and level headed as yourself dilli then there's no hope for the rest of us. I'm going to go smash my telly up and set fire to the bathroom just in case this comes about.

Why protest? Do you want a bank that is competitive and thus viable or one that lives in the past?

The introduction of drivers hours legislation on the island is long overdue

I have been in contact with Nick Black and Keith Podmore via Rob Callister and asked them several questions: A good friend who owned a building company has looked over this and tbh he was shocked at just how unprofessional and how open to abuse the whole thing is... I just dread to think just how much the whole thing will end up costing both in monetary terms and time. Below is the email trail (I've removed some personal details etc) I have put my questions in italics Dear Maire, Nick Black has requested I respond to your recent emailed questions, responses provided below. Should you require any clarification or have further queries, please do not hesitate to contact me. Please verify what local firms are involved and under what conditions are they integrating with the main contractor? The following companies are sub-contractors to the main contractor: o Stephen Christian and Sons Ltd o Excel o Island Drainage & Groundworks Ltd o JCK Ltd o K Henry Construction Ltd o Gibson Paving o SCUK Global Services o Watling Streetworks Ltd o Sweeney Groundworks Ltd o TQC o RGW Ltd o Island Civils & Plant Ltd o C&C Groundworks Ltd o DWT Ltd Are there detailed drawings for every aspect of the works or is the work being carried out merely with schematics. If there are detailed drawings are they being produced on an ad hoc basis or were these available to the main contractor at tender? Detailed design drawings are provided for all aspects of the construction work. At tender stage, a full set of outline design drawings were provided. Finalised detailed design drawings have been updated where required and provided to the Contractor throughout the construction period. Was there a BoQ, Bill of Quantities, produced prior to tender, in fact, does one exist at all? If there is a BoQ in existence, are there any contingencies allowed for, if so what are these contingencies and in what sum? A detailed Bill of Quantities was provided at Tender Stage. The Contract is procured under the ‘NEC ECC Option B – Priced contract with bill of quantities’. A Client contingency of £1.25M has been allocated to the scheme. Please can you confirm that the penalty clause commences on March 2021 despite Covid 19. The penalty clause commences 6 weeks after the Completion Date. With reference to your comment, " We already have every civil engineering contractor on the Island working on the scheme with the exception of one firm that is too busy." Are these firms being employed (a) as sub-contractors by the main contractor, (b) nominated sub-contractors or, (c) directly by the Dept of Public Works and on loan to the main contractor? The firms listed above are employed as sub-contractors by the main contractor. The exception to this is a DOI workforce whom are undertaking works at the side streets on Loch Promenade; this work was de-scoped from the main contract following the impact of the COVID-19 shutdown. Have any extensions been granted in principle, if so, how much time has been awarded? Under the Contract, the Completion Date can be changed following a Compensation Event that has demonstrated a time impact to the programmed work on the critical path. Following the re-start after the COVID-19 shutdown and to date, the agreed Completion Date of 31st March 2021 has not changed. Are there regular site meetings to discuss progress, if so, is there a Quantity Surveyor acting on the government's behalf at these meetings? Progress meetings are held weekly. There are also numerous other meeting which are held on a weekly / two weekly or monthly basis. Bell Burton Associates act on behalf of the Department as Cost Consultants and attend all necessary meetings. Who is the Quantity Surveyor? See above On Tue, 8 Sep 2020 at 12:54, Black, Nick <nick.black@gov.im> wrote: Dear Maire I have answered your questions within the email below. I have put them in bold so that you can work out what has been added. Nick What is the budgeted manpower for the works and how many workers should be on site at any one time? The Contractor has provided a programme for completing the works and is responsible for providing sufficient plant and labour to achieve this programme. There is no minimum or maximum figure to accompany this requirement. Worker numbers will also fluctuate based on the activities being undertaken, however the current daily average is 50 construction workers on site. Given the size and economic impact of the project would it not be prudent to have a minimum of man power for the work, I would argue that there are not on average 50 daily - maybe 50 over the course of a full day but I have driven down mid morning and mid afternoon and the most I counted was 47 - the least was 3 (on a working day) Speaking to a project manager who is used to doing major works he has advised that there should be 150-200 per day especially given the time scales. That would be great but we already have every civil engineering contractor on the Island working on the scheme with the exception of one firm that is too busy. We cannot import labour from the UK due to border controls. We have committed as many of our own staff as we can. The contractor would love to be able to find more staff but we are a small Island with a limited workforce. what are the penalty clauses for overruns on works schedule? For late completion, the Contractor will be liable for £3,000 per week of overrun. thanks please confirm that this will kick in March 2021 It will, unless the contractor makes any successful claims for extra time under the NEC contract process. Are there any clauses for roads not reopening as per timetable - IE Broadway over 7 weeks late In the case of Broadway no- this was a decision of the Department to facilitate the re-opening of 2 way traffic. is there a detailed schedule of works? The Contractor provides a comprehensive programme of work to completion. Additionally the contractor provides a four week look ahead programme which is published on the myProm website. I'm afraid that this is usually out of date - where can the public find the comprehensive programme of works from beginning to planned completion? I will ask for the up to date links to be sent to you. what is the cost for the unused machinery that sits on the site? As per above, the Contractor provides the plant required to undertake the work. Unused plant on site does not incur additional cost to Government.' Why has the full prom been worked on at one time rather than in sections? Due to the nature of the work and topography of the Promenade, it is necessary to install new services (gas main, water mains etc.) in long lengths. These lengths have where possible, been kept to a minimum. Since the impact of Covid-19, the Department have worked with the Contractor to complete the scheme by March 2021. To achieve this, larger sections of works are again inevitable. The Department made it clear that it was choosing additional disruption now to give the visitor economy the best possible start to 2021. Noted, however given the limited amount of manpower and actual workers on site is this feasible? Would it not be prudent to concentrate more crew at a smaller site? The Minister made it clear that he wanted to get the scheme done before the 2021 visitor season. The Department asked the contractor to accelerate the scheme and in doing this removed a lot of the constraints that had been imposed to reduce the impact of the works. Length of closures was one of the restrictions that we removed. what has Loch prom alone taken almost 2 years The works undertaken on Loch Promenade (new gas main, new water mains, new high and low voltage electric cable installations) have all taken a considerable length of time to install. The highway and footway construction is being completed after the installation of these services and the landside footway now almost complete. It must also be stated that throughout the work, access to businesses, residents etc. has always been maintained and this inevitably slows down the construction work and efficiency of construction. Again the above - even with access maintained - this area of prom should not take more than 2 years to complete, why have more staff not been used to get this completed sooner? As before- there are no more suitable construction workers available to the scheme.

What mad person allows him access to technology?!

Well it would help if you didn't post stuff like this:

This actually used to happen. At one time the Steam Packet used to offer cheap day-return tickets (when it was possible to do a day return and have a decent amount of time to spend in Liverpool/Dublin/the Island. They were actually less than half the price of an 'ordinary' return and so some people did exactly what you suggested. The Steamie reacted by interrogating any passengers who they suspected would not be returning the same day and sometimes even refusing them passage. It meant no one ended up wanting to go on day trips for fear of something embarrassing happening. Typically the Company actually put far more effort into trying to detect those who they thought might be 'cheating' them, than they did in trying to get more people to use the boats.

and 6 Chinese banks too

I heard that at lunchtime. Could not believe A Wint saying that it was a unique idea and great. That has been suggested for decades by hundreds of people. Why should all taxpayers subsidise the fares so a few hoteliers make money, that generally does not filter back into our economy. I would be a bit p***** o** if my taxes went to help some hopeless hoteliers afford to jet off to Spain for the winter.

Hang on, you've spent weeks going on about job losses yet here you are supporting job losses. Maybe that's funny yeah?

I’m not sure why you claimed my post was nonsense and then go off on some bizarre mad rant about the incompetence of Boris Johnson. I hate Johnson but I think herd immunity while shielding and safeguarding the elderly and vulnerable from day one was the most obvious and best way to deal with this. Now the whole country is fucked as Johnson lost control when he was in hospital and total covid-obsessed loons like some of the Public Health Englanders and Matt Handjob took over and drove the agenda that was all about proving how “hard” you’re going to be to kill covid compared to any other country.

He's probably perpetually angry 'cause Castletown Commissioners have to be the least achieving on the island & he has to pay them rates At least he can calm himself chopping dead animals into bits & it's not even illegal

I bet he was writing on the screen with a felt tip

I don't know that story, but I think it depends on the severity of the assault. However, this isn't just nicking an opportunistic nicking of grand. It's premeditated, it's a betrayal of a position of trust, it's taking taxpayer's money that's intended to help those in need.

The taxi couple sound like chavs from Central Casting.

Nope I say & mean that in my - very expensive - experience of runnng a business serving the visitor industry the TT kills trade for about a week before the event and about a week after the event, making the event itself literally pointless from an enterprise perspective

Watching the TV this morning you get the impression that the UK is genuinely in some sort of meltdown spiral and that so many people actually want a second wave and for further lockdowns to happen in order to pretty much validate their entire existence and beliefs. How did they manage to brain wash so many people in positions of authority to buy into the fact that the answer is so many stupid and unenforceable rules and restrictions? Even every tinpot local council now seems to think they've been press ganged into the covid frontline and have to lock down peoples lives with zero tolerance as Public Health England seems to have brainwashed everyone to join the cause. Sorry to read about your mother you must be pleased you took the right approach. As you say so many are now in the position that they’re screwed - and many not only know they’re going to die but also that there’s a good chance that they’re going to die alone without their family around them due to ever increasing restrictions and controls. It’s just cruel and inhuman. A proper human shit-show to look forward in your last few weeks or months on earth. The whole situation is badly screwed up already and it’s going get worse when the furlough is pulled back as that’s when the real personal despair is going to hit many millions of people who are just about holding it together currently hoping that their lives will return to normal and their job will just be handed back to them like nothing ever happened.

Been like that for years. That's nothing new.

The capricious nature of judicial decisions on the Isle of Man outstrips anywhere else on earth I’d say.

I was an enthusiast for quite a while but as the deaths and injuries kept mounting up it began to be uncomfortable - not with the racing but the impact on the island. Seemed incongruous when celebrating a 'festival' when death and injuries were being announced. I try to get off island for these last few years as getting around the island seems to gets more difficult and the roads just seem less safe than in the old days. (I think that is the standard of driving / riding though.)

Even in your most argumentative days I thought you had something to say. You called me many many names, yet I still thought you had an angle on things. You now come across as a complete fool, who has a feeling of superiority. What do you feel gives you the right to judge every other poster on here.You deride anyone who opposes your view.

Only if someone tells him they're made from potatoes.

It annoys me that these politicians suddenly become excuse makers for the contractor. The client ie the taxpayer just doesn't get a look in. They forget they are representing us, not their mates in Government and Tynwald, and the contractor.

If they could, government should order a moratorium on all commercial debt financing & let hospitality businesses close down for the duration if they don't have access to sufficient working capital to trade

Andy knows everything and if he hasn't heard about it then it didn't happen.

If Boot had suggested using RBSI executives he'd have been allowed to go hunting.

Women,children,the elderly and infirm first, then alphabetical order. I'll brave it out until the next batch. I seek no glory or medal, just doing my bit.

Then old hotels & guest houses - especially in the Lanes area of Douglas - should be redeveloped as private accommodation Self-catering & 'glamping' is the more affordable option for a lot of the market A bit of B&B around the island is good too

The thinking of some people in the UK is that if they get a test that shows they are positive they can Quarantine and then after the 14 days ..be comfortable that they have had it and can get on with life. Problem is that folk are trying to get tested even when they have no symptoms. Worst case for some is to have had it, not be tested. System is clogged with getting tested for the hell of it.

And more conspiracy theory stuff.

Or listens to Manx Radio. (I might be wrong thread)

Very good post, Wrighty, and not only are you medically qualified you are also a statistian, IIRC. I am bemused as to why the powers that be cannot see these issues. Question Time last night is worth a look and Sunetra Gupta's comments. However, I feel she is a lone voice as she felt uncomfortable when she referred to the relatively low impact if covid on the general population. Obviously, she was on the receiving end of some anti-heretics' stares preparing the bonfire for the 'witch'.

Whoopee you must be so pleased! It’s all coming true for the doom mongers! Hopefully another unneeded national lockdown next and you can all have a good warm glow about that as well as another few million peoples lives get destroyed in the wake.

Banker is unraveling

Better still, the next time I see him, I will ask him. But I won't hold my breath.

I not sure who ran Airport and ports before, but for someone who is never off social media, you would think we might know why - 1) He thought he was just an Interim appointment at the DOI. 2) The Airport did not open, even though there was a plane in the skys,which had to be diverted to Liverpool, 3) What happened to the Ben -my -chree and how much it has cost, 4)Why 21 jobs at Airport are to go, 5) When the Liverpool sea terminal will be open 6) Why he was removed from DHA.

As usual, particularly when it involves the room's elephants. Which has been the standard procedure of IoM Govt since forever.

The business model has always been to remodel (at great expense and using off-Island 'specialists') their pubs to whatever is currently becoming unfashionable. This might have worked in the days when people were unaware of the latest trends, but since modern forms of communication have arrived, the punters are unlikely to be fooled. Obviously this is pretty much the way the Manx Government works as well.

This thief has now been jailed, although not for very long. Someone they turn down would probably get longer for stealing a couple of tins of beans to keep themselves alive. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-54153331 The interesting bit is this So it seems like others were at it too. Getting any financial help out of that department is difficult enough for those that actually need it, to have the staff robbing the place is utterly fucking disgusting.

Have you read that article?

Latest minutes of the Strategic Board, although already a month old. https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/myprom.im/20_08_14_signed_douglas_promenade_project_board_minutes_redacted.pdf A few interesting points. Both Black and Robinson missing - presumably both on holiday. No mention of the the fact that two-way traffic was to be reintroduced on 8th September, suggesting this was a last minute change of plan. Worryingly, Burroughs Stewart have been asked to come up with a solution for horse tram signalling. Wait for another £1m plus solution to appear. Burroughs Stewart are the guys who designed the tram tracks, complete with cracks, fading etc. Minister Baker clearly getting very agitated about the inability of the contractors to keep to the timetable, and the penny is beginning to drop that the critical target of 1st April 2021 completion is going to be missed. Baker already starting to pay the price for backing incompetents like Black and Robinson, when he was appointed, when it was obvious to everyone he was making a huge error.

No there is an offence of driving whilst unfit through drink or drugs. Drink is now given a fixed level, 80ug in blood and 35ug in breath. That’s a statutory test. Doesn’t matter if you’re fit or not. Over and you’re deemed unfit. Used to be the touch your nose walk a straight line, speech slurred, bloodshot eyes, breath reeking of alcohol test of the Sergeants observation. In the U.K. they introduced the 2ug level for drugs such as cannabis. We haven’t caught up. It was late to be introduced because detection kits were ok at detecting presence, but not the level, for years. So in IoM we still use the observational test, so the custody sergeant was satisfied ability to drive was impaired. A sample was taken that showed a level way above the English permitted level. On its own enough to charge and convict ( and he did plead guilty after legal advice at police station and before court ), Quite why the Dr’s report wasn’t on the police file scanned through to prosecutions we will never know. Like we will never know how the Dr came to certify him fit to drive. It’s like someone saying someone with a blood alcohol level of 400ug is fit to drive. Defendant has been very lucky. It illustrates why we need to set an arbitrary fixed level.

Having followed this forum for many, many years it is very clear how politicians are regarded. Several reasons for that of course, sometimes they don't do themselves any favours. This is GE year and probably the most serious and / or interesting times we have ever faced on several fronts . It will tax our politicians to find the right solutions to problems not entirely of their own making (some would say for once!) but the ramifications of the decisions this year will be with us for along time afterwards. And they will be important and difficult choices to make. I am not saying we should all have blind faith in what they determine or indeed ignore it when they clearly get it wrong. And the system seems heavily weighed against public opinions and engagement. But public opinion has to count somewhere. Having seen the empty seats at political meetings and in Tynwald. At times it seems no one can be bothered, including embarrassingly some of those elected. The public expected to wait outside in the pouring rain until the doors open, miserable dour entrance hall that badly needs a coat of paint, changes at the last minute to Order papers and Questions - the public seem to be totally ignored at times and regarded as 'inconvenient passers by'. Its embarrassing for our public entrance to the parliament building to be in such decay. Time it stopped, and time to invite the public in seriously to see what is being done in our names. And if anybody can get them off their phones and computers whilst they are determining our futures I would be immensely grateful. Not an edifying sight. Some of them could at least 'pretend' to be interested in what is going on. We let them get away with it. I have no preference for any political member, but seeing and hearing them in the flesh is still a better way of judging them than any other. I realise that Tynwald is largely a pantomime show for some egoistic charades at times but don't we deserve better in this day and age, not to mention the cost of it all. I am going to attend Tynwald more often this year and some professionalism and respect for the public in this particular year would be very welcome. Politics and governing are two different things. Rant over. (Ducks for cover.)