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  1. Based on the report findings, suggestions are easy. Despite only investigating the allegations from 10 (then I think reduced to 8) families, evidence was found to support virtually all the claims made, so there are failings. Those individual social workers who repeatedly failed should be disciplined, and sacked if necessary, those who occasionally did should receive additional training and support. There was a clear failure by management to communicate and monitor staff, and the same process should be applied to them. This needs to be treated like a failing school in the UK, so its is placed in 'special measures' and a crisis management team brought in to immediately address the many, many failings and issues raised. We know what they are now, so the solution is get rid the substandard people and implement effective management to help those who want to do a good job. But... Why is it STT's role to suggest solutions? They are a concerned citizen who believed, and it turns out was absolutely right, that there are serious problems in social services. They had an opinion and expressed it. why do they now have to solve the issue too? Isn't that why we elect politicians and have thousands of overpaid civil servants?
  2. Looks like someone's got a crush!!! Is she a proper looker? You may well be right in your assertion, which is just one of the reasons I wouldn't pretend to know how to fix anti-social behaviour with special treats.
  3. Perhaps Mr Thomas has succumbed to the mystery illness which appears to have resulted in several social workers taking sick leave recently. It is most unfortunate for such a bout of illness to hit the division so badly, especially with the report due to be published this week. It's a shame they won't be at work to bask in the warm glow of being fully exonerated. I wish them all a speedy recovery and hope they don't end up on sick leave for a long period, ultimately resulting in early retirement with a lump sum payment and pension entitlement.
  4. Bet there's some do-gooder airhead with zero life experience, zero qualifications and an ego the size of a planet who's read a couple of books behind this lame idea.
  5. You must be new here...Barrie makes things up to appear interesting. It stops being entertaining really quickly.
  6. nothing like a bit of unnecessary aggression and name calling to get your point across. Despite your tone, you deserve a response, although Roger Mexico has sort of covered. For clarity, in case you are as simple as your post indicates, for the Attorney General's Chambers to become involved police have to commence an investigation and then take advice. My point was that, the rumour stated that because of a familial relationship police declined to take any action over an alleged offence, so it couldn't have gone to the AG's Chambers for any decision. Also, because I can't really resist it, you say one should go to the AG's Chambers for an 'independent' decision? And you call me the fucktard?
  7. There was a rumour doing the rounds that this woman and members of her family had been verbally harassed by a person in the Island, and that the fact those allegations weren't investigated or dragged in front of a court with no evidence had nothing to do with the person being the sister of a current or former police officer. the isle of man - where you can (get away with whatever you like as long as you know the right people)
  8. Oh right. I understand the point you were making now. Yes, I'd agree her interaction with one or two Facebook pages and on this forum didn't help enhance her reputation, or perhaps create a good first impression if you hadn't encountered her previously, but that was to a relatively limited audience really. Being taken to court ensured widespread coverage in the 'mainstream' local media, such as Isle of Man Newspapers, Manx Radio, 3FM etc etc, which can only have resulted in her reputation being damaged to a new and much wider audience. Also, her previous online interaction made her look a bit silly and gobby. The non-case the Attorney General's Chambers brought against her alleged she had broken the law, was a criminal, and had harassed someone, which is clearly much more serious than posting like a dick a few times. I'm pleased for her and her husband this ordeal is over, hope everyone who read initial media reports and jumped to 'smoke and fire' conclusions sees the outcome, and that she sues the AG's Chambers for what it has put her through. Good job everyone in the Attorney General's Chambers is whiter than white and none of them have skeletons in the closet, isn't it?
  9. I have to confess, I'm a little confused. I think we all know this woman had a lot to say on social media and here, but I don't fully understand what that has to do with the non-existent case which has now been dropped. The case related to allegations of harassment of an individual, which it turned out the prosecution was unable to provide evidence of despite she and her husband being subject to this process for more than a year. I don't think it had anything to do with her get a bit ranty on Manx Forums, so I don't know you mean. Could you explain? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I don't understand your point and would like to.
  10. There's quite a few listed in the Death in Police custody thread, although spread throughout the 50 pages so not easy to quickly reference. My favourite remains the Castletown man charged with an offence - some kind of harassment I think - who went through the process for months before the case as reviewed and the prosecution department realised the legislation the man had been charged under was English law and didn't apply here. there are plenty of others.
  11. This isn't about being arrested, which is the police function. This is about the decision to proceed to charge and begin court proceedings, which is a prosecution function. Often, being arrested will not become public, if there is no charge made, and can be a necessary step in any criminal investigation to establish the facts. Being under arrest also offers the 'suspect' certain rights. I'm not saying the police don't get it wrong - they do, almost all of the time - but the damage of being arrested, wrongly, and released without charge is minimal when compared to being charged, taken to court, publicly named, becoming the subject of media reporting and social media gossip, suffering the worry and stress of a long and intimidating process and then, after so many months, being told they can't actually make it stack up so are walking away. Not clearing you after the public and needless shaming, just walking away because they have finally realised they don't really have a case.
  12. In the Isle of Man it is customary to take every allegation to court regardless of the quality of evidence or, indeed, whether the charge is lawful under Manx law (rather than stupidly assuming English laws automatically apply here, which honestly does happen). They seem to hope that the fear of being dragged through the courts will either make the guilty admit it without the effort of evidence being found or the innocent admit it just to get the process over with and stop the public shaming (with regular trips to the court and the accompany media reporting). When it comes to the crunch and the bully boy tactics haven't worked, or the sheer incompetence becomes clear, they have the advantage of just walking away, offering 'no evidence' and moving on to the next shambles. They don't have to worry about the schedules of the already over burdened courts, the immense cost nor the damage done to the the 'accused' and their families. And they keep getting away with it, while we keep paying for it.
  13. So, the Isle of Man's prosecution department enjoys yet another success - link After putting this couple through months and months of stress and worry, they simply decided not to bother offering any evidence. Presumably, after months and months of investigation and careful, professional consideration, they realised they didn't actually have a case to make, so dropped it. It begs the question why the standard of the evidence wasn't fully scrutinised much, much earlier, before thousands (probably tens of thousands) of pounds were wasted with court time, and defence lawyer fees which presumably prosecutions will now have to foot, were built up. It's a waste of our money, and the court's time, for the prosecution to bring poorly constructed cases before them, make them run for months on end and then, when it comes to the point of arguing the case, just dropping it. And it's not as if this is an isolated incident. There is something, or actually someone, very wrong in that department, and it needs examining. But why should they worry? They don't have to pay the bills, or suffer reputation damage - they can just put any old shit in front of the courts without a care for the outcome. If it fails, or has to be dropped, why should they care? We should either have a parliamentary inquiry into prosecutions, especially its 'success' rate in concluding contested charges with a guilty verdict, or make the prosecutors pay the bills when they lose.
  14. There have been huge improvements over the decades, and the provision of children and family services today is almost unrecognisable compared with the 70s, 80s and 90s. But...there are ongoing problems with mismanagement, unprofessional behaviour, bullying, lying, falsifying records and worse in today's children and family services. These are modern, contemporary issues, recent complaints which led to the inquiry report we're not allowed to see. Perhaps most worryingly of all, as the report remains under wraps and the shit is heaped under the carpets, the abuses and mismanagement are continuing unabated. I appreciate some who haven't been subjected to this 'service' may say the families deserve it for being 'scum' or whatever pejorative term you choose, but what seems to be forgotten is there are innocent children involved who are suffering because the professional services which are supposed to help them are more interested in showing off how powerful they are, job protection and colleague defence, or are purely incompetent. As someone once said 'won't someone think of the children'
  15. Well, on September 4 I posted: Such allegations of abuse were brought to your attention, not least in the letter referred to by STT which you aren't clear whether you saw or not. Then Peter Karran further brought such allegations of abuse to your attention, and was largely laughed at by people of your ilk. Thanks to his perseverance and the commitment of some of those who had suffered such abuse and refused to be bullied into silence, we got an independent investigation, which presumably further brought evidence of abuse to your attention. Your response so far has been to deny receiving the letter, not listening to Peter Karran and giving the SS three months to let those who are culpable escape with unblemished records and prepare excuses and lies to undermine the independent report. You know, or if you don't then we should all have serious concerns, that a number of social workers at varying levels of seniority and experience have left the service since the first draft report was completed, notably many who were directly alleged by families to have carried out bullying and abuse. More are in the process of leaving now. Why won't you be on the public's side?
  16. Why would Peter Karran be dealing with it? He raised the issue, but has been out of politics and with no government role for a year now. Delivering the report, and 'action plan' is now a government matter. Mr Thomas is usually responsive, even on here, hence my question. Are you absolutely sure he hasn't been 'advised' to stop commenting on this thread? There have, after all, been all manner of legal threats made in order to keep a lid on this.
  17. You could well be right, but how would we know? We've paid for an independent investigation that we're currently not allowed to see the outcome from. There could be nothing wrong, in which case the innocent professionals are having to live in this shadow for no reason, and that's government's fault. I think all we can do is read between the lines. People complained and that, in itself, doesn't mean anything is wrong, but it did lead to an independent investigation which would suggest there was sufficient evidence of potential problems for government/parliament to at least look into it. A report has been presented, but we aren't allowed to see it until October, so it can be presented with an 'action plan'. If the report finding was that the complainants had no evidence of alleged wrongdoing and everything was fine, I'd have thought it would have just been published straightaway. The fact an 'action plan' is required would suggest the investigation found something that needed fixing, and that it was sufficiently serious for the findings to remain confidential (extremely so, with threat of legal action) until an official response had been formulated, over a three month period. In the absence of concrete fact we are left with supposition, and the most generous interpretation of the current situation is the investigation found improvements could be made, otherwise why have an action plan? So, I think it is unlikely it will 'turn out to be absolutely fuck all'. Mr Thomas has gone awfully quiet recently.
  18. Yes, a record can be made on their professional file or they can be struck off. But only if a finding of wrongdoing is made against them. If they are given three months to clear their desks, get a new job and sail off into the distance, and their previous employers says 'yes, individual cases on wrongdoing were identified by they no longer work for the department so no disciplinary action can be taken', then that black mark is never recorded. That not only allows lying bullies to ply their evil trade on other unsuspecting vulnerable families, but also ensures the previous employer's dirty linen isn't air in public. Not that any of this is happening, obviously...
  19. While there has been, inevitably, some natural staff turnover, I know, for a fact, that some have departed as a result of the investigation starting (fear of exposure?) and others as a result of the draft findings. For some this is a simple process, they are employed on a short-term rolling contract basis so they can parachute out/be quietly disposed of simply by not renewing contracts. They can then move to other authorities with unblemished records and carry on the bullying. Others are directly employed, which presents more of an issue and takes time to ensure they can step away without a fuss, through retirement (early in some cases), resignation or relocation to new positions/departments. Regarding your final sentence, that is what one would assume would happen (as well as some criminal investigation in some cases). But it doesn't appear to be happening does it? It looks like instead of delivering the report, warts and all, in July, which could have happened as it was ready, it was delayed until the next sitting, which just happened to be three months later, giving ample time to clear the decks of anyone criticised without anyone facing any disciplinary investigation. Convenient that.
  20. Such allegations of abuse were brought to your attention, not least in the letter referred to by STT which you aren't clear whether you saw or not. Then Peter Karran further brought such allegations of abuse to your attention, and was largely laughed at by people of your ilk. Thanks to his perseverance and the commitment of some of those who had suffered such abuse and refused to be bullied into silence, we got an independent investigation, which presumably further brought evidence of abuse to your attention. Your response so far has been to deny receiving the letter, not listening to Peter Karran and giving the SS three months to let those who are culpable escape with unblemished records and prepare excuses and lies to undermine the independent report. You know, or if you don't then we should all have serious concerns, that a number of social workers at varying levels of seniority and experience have left the service since the first draft report was completed, notably many who were directly alleged by families to have carried out bullying and abuse. More are in the process of leaving now. Why won't you be on the public's side?
  21. One thing that confuses me is how such incidents can have been happening in Ramsey, which appears to have more police officers than just about anywhere outside the headquarters. There always seems to be a minimum of three marked vehicles (often more) parked behind the town hall (making use of the specially reserved spaces and anywhere else they feel like chucking the cars and vans) which would suggest there's a few of them about. Perhaps if they got out of the police station and patrolled a bit, even driving around as I know fitness standards aren't what they were, it might deter some of this behaviour. They certainly won't catch anyone while supping tea in the town hall. That said, modern Manx policing seems to be about making appeals on social media and the local news sites, and sitting back waiting for evidence to come in.
  22. So, in short, you are confirming that the full report has been shared, unredacted, with social workers and their managers while being denied to those members of the public who gave evidence? And yet you suggest there is no intention to subvert a process which should result in disciplinary if not criminal action against some government employees or contract holders? It is evident to anyone who has ever seen the Isle of Man Government in action exactly what is happening. There is no genuine reason, at all, that this report could not have been laid before Tynwald in July so the public could see for itself whether there are issue or not and for the department to report back with an action plan, if one is required, in October. Claiming the report must be held back until October so it can be presented alongside an action plan is, firstly, an admission failings have been identified, other wise why would you need an action plan? Secondly, it allows people who were at fault to step away from the department, without facing disciplinary or criminal action, for early retirements to be speedily progressed, and for explanations/excuses to any criticisms to be prepared and rehearsed in advance of October, so all backs are adequately covered. This is another clear case of government pulling up the drawbridge to protect its own, including anyone who has done wrong (must be someone, otherwise why an action plan?), and disadvantaging those families which came forward with evidence of abuse, bullying, lies, threats and worse. The fact some were paid off demonstrates government has a 'divide and conquer' attitude and will not tolerate whistle blowers. But remember Mr Thomas, evidence was only taken from a small sample of families with complaints - specimen charges if you will - and if the severity of the failings (again, must be some otherwise why do you need an action plan) is not clearly admitted, and those responsible held to account, the system will remain broken and you will see more and more families coming forward with their horrendous experiences. If, for example, it is demonstrated someone's tragic death was caused or contributed to by the actions of social workers, after this investigation commenced and possibly after CoMin had the report, how will you live with that?
  23. Of course it won't. Questionable professional practices are no bar to climbing the greasy pole right to the very top, as we'd all know if someone with the full story decided to recount a certain senior legal officer's pathway to success.
  24. The delay in releasing the report creates suspicion that it is being altered or that those criticised are being given extra time to prepare a defence or get out before facing disciplinary action. It was an independent inquiry requested by Tynwald which took evidence from members of the public, and yet government has decided its release has to be delayed and witnesses denied access to it until they've finished 'tinkering' That's the issue.
  25. Respect needs to be earned, and this episode doesn't make me want to respect the government officials involved. I don't know if it is true that the AG's chambers have been used to threaten investigators and witnesses, but I believe this needs to be subject to an urgent investigation so that if it is not true we can continue to have faith in the independence of the chambers. It wouldn't surprise me given examples of how this body operates and the way personal relationships with members of other government bodies seemingly influence policy and approach. Mr Thomas, this should be dealt with urgently. I don't know if it is true that complete versions of the report have been given to social workers while being denied to those who gave evidence. Mr Thomas needs to comment on this as a matter of urgency. I do know it is true that Mr Quayle and other ministers/MHKs were made aware of serious complaints about alleged malpractice in social services, on an almost industrial scale, by people like Mr Karran, whistle blowers from within DHSC and many, many people who had been subjected to threats, bullying, intimidation and worse by social workers. This was largely ignored until the authorities gave in, thanks to Mr Karran's persistence, and allowed an independent investigation. It is extremely telling that with that inquiry complete the government is unwilling to share the conclusions with the public for months on end. This administration is rotten to the core, we all know it and we all see it every single day, and this sorry episode is another example of that, but one which has very real and damaging consequences for children and families. We shouldn't have to live in a place where government has to be bullied into investigating serious allegations, refuses to share the findings with the public until they have been watered down and the guilty shuffled out, and can be suspected of using supposedly independent bodies to threaten investigators and witnesses and arming those subject to criticism with documentation denied to those who gave evidence, so they can cover their backs. Frankly, i'm surprised anyone is happy with this. As I've said before, everyone will have their own point of view, based on whatever experience or understanding they have, but the truth lies within that report. This argument over who is right and who is wrong about the behaviour of social workers can be settled by simply publishing the publicly funded report.
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