Freggyragh

There were, no doubt, some English people who voted for 'sovereignty, unaware that every international treaty, especially trade deals, involves compromise, not just the Single Market deal. However, the main arguments the spivs and toffs used in 2016 were: 1. It would be better for the NHS. 2. The UK would control its borders better. 3. Immigration would be better controlled. 4. Trade deals would be better. The sovereignty argument, that the English would be able to make their own laws, was always bottom of the list. This was always the flakiest argument, but the most difficult to refute without giving detailed analysis of all the UK's international commitments. The only significant exercise of sovereignty taken so far is to allow the ruination of English waterways by the foreign owned water companies. So, brexit has failed to deliver on points 1, 2, 3 & 4, and although a bit of sovereignty has been exercised it is, literally, shit. Reminder of the leave campaign: http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/why_vote_leave.html Now that all the bunkum about an EU superstate, Turkey joining etc., etc., has also been seen as bogus, and the huge financial hit predicted by the Yellowhammer Report is in full swing, the spivs & toffs can no longer put the blame for their failures on the EU, so they're pinning it on asylum seekers. Of course, asylum seekers are not exactly popular anywhere in Europe. If the EU brings in tighter restrictions and in turn fewer immigrants make it to England, who will be blamed next?

I wish Moorhouse was one of my MHKs. I reckon if I was stuck at the bottom of a well on a Saturday night and had 1% left on my phone, if I called him to see if he could get a rope, I reckon he would. If I only had MHKs' numbers in my phone and Moorhouse didn't answer, I think I'd probably try Christian, Faragher, Poole-Wilson, Caine, Edge, Allison, Peters or Watterson. I think I'd be worried that some of the others would either not answer, or would use up my battery telling me how important and busy they are and how just getting rope isn't as straightforward as I might think, or suggest I contact someone else. Am I being harsh?

I doubt it's bureaucracy and taxes. Bookkeeping & payroll are easier and cheaper than ever with modern software, and there's only personal income tax to calculate for small & medium sized businesses. Rates & service charges could, probably should, be looked at, but it doesn't take a genius to see that unrealistic rents and terms, sky-high utility charges and the miserable post-brexit labour market, business sentiment and import / export situation are the main factors.

No. It's seven years since the referendum, so now that Project Fear is Project Here, it's about time we started to asses the impact. I am half wishing for another seven years of pain, so that when we rejoin we do so unanimously. Then again, maybe there are still leavers around who still believe in it?

Good luck to Bushys, it's not easy opening a restaurant in a town with no food retailers bar Tesco and the Coop.

The blighting of Peel with the eye-sore granite in place of parking has been horrific for businesses, and ruined the look of the place.

Well, the DOI have devastated Peel and done some damage to Ramsey. What did Tillyard do that was more bone-headed than pedestrianising a ghost town?

I've edited my post. Ramsey isn't quite as vibrant as it was, but it hasn't been ruined like Castletown.

One of my first jobs was in Castletown. It was a very busy little town, full of independent traders and out of town visitors all year round. It had a great fish mongers, a good little butchers, a couple of little bakeries, a laundrette, a health food shop, two record shops, two busy chemists and more. It was a really friendly, bustling place with lots of community spirit. I had to go there last week — to see an old friend. I left very upset. It has clearly been 'regenerated' by clowns who couldn't accept a Manx market town for what it was, and turned it into a ghost town. You can blame brexit, the war in Ukraine, the awful government in England or whatever, but this is really down to a terrible lack of sympathy from the commissioners for a traditional town that relies on passing trade.

Little Englander nationalism.

The only thing a town like Peel needs is parking, decent transport links, and grants for sympathetic improvements to retail buildings. The only thing the government has done is replace parking spaces with completely inappropriate Chinese granite.

'Believing' and 'Knowing' are two, barely similar concepts. 'Believing, on the basis of evidence' and 'Believing, on the basis of what I want to happen, or the basis of what a large number of culturally similar people believe' are also wildy different concepts.

QT from Clacton-on-Sea provided us with the best and most logical, well thought out argument for brexit I've heard yet. Well done to the lady who pointed out that when she went to France and Germany they were 'going up on their roofs with nothing'. If you saw it you'll have to agree, it was the most intelligent brexit point yet.

Comma after [Or], fullstops after [quantity] and [wrong].

I was going to contribute to this thread, as I thought it was about Boris Johnson and his lying, including about brexit. Am I to understand that that is not allowed now, to save the feelings of the true believers?