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Everything posted by DjDan

  1. Ah.. you got me. Guess it's just one of those funny things huh?
  2. mate, just what is your problem? please keep your sexual fantasies to yourself. No Mormon women would go near ya.
  3. Hey, I am planning on going out there sometime soon for the first time and was hoping some of you guys on here could give me some up's as to what to expect. What is the place like or... what kinda things do you do? What is the environment like around the centre? and if you go on hikes... how tough are they? Actually.... ANY advice or information would be appreciated. Just one more thing... what clothes do you normally wear? Will I be overdoing it if i come with waterproof clothing and walking boots? Thanx.
  4. Oh, I can't read well? And I'm getting the arse about the wrong religion? LOL Wasn't it you all who mistook our missionaries for another church? and then ranted and raved with that misconception??? Actually, if you read a little better, you will note that your quote followed on from the quote by Lonan3 who said "any religion that proselytizes in this way..". You then said "These mugs go out purely to sign up new members to generate more income for the people running the show". So in the context from which you followed, you expect me to know that you were specifically talking about the Life Church?? and then suggest that I cannot read very well because I cannot read your mind?? 1. You quoted the words "any religion" from Lonan3 2. You then continued this allegation referring to "these mugs" who were from the LDS church. Yes we all now know that the LDS are entirely different from the Life church.... but I think I am in the right to point out following your words that these "mugs" (the missionaries) that you were referring to do not do it for the money that you said they did. Understand?
  5. DjDan

    Hop Tu Naa

    no effort... no reward.
  6. In any other area of life this is called multi-level marketing (pyramid schemes etc) and you are absolutely correct in what you say. These mugs go out purely to sign up new members to generate more income for the people running the show. I can't believe how blindly stupid most of these people must be not to see what they are doing, trying to pretend its about converting you when its really a pyramid scheme based on religion. Or maybe it IS all about God as isn't the guy running the show a banker and financial adviser who presumably would be familiar with how these sort revenue generating schemes work, and therefore might want to run a mile from any suggestion that this was just about getting money from new recruits. (Edited - spelling) May I just make it clear to you... in our church there is NO PAID CLERGY. That means no church leader gets paid, and neither do the misionaries. Clearly then... it's not for the money OR the numbers.
  7. Will you please stop with this rubbish?? You have misunderstood the church and its teachings so badly it's ridiculus.
  8. Then why didn't you be specific? We are talking about the church here on the island.
  9. Seriously, what is wrong with you people?? I didn't really expect you all to know much about my church, but I'm utterly shocked by your attitude towards it in making up your stories and allegations. The funny thing is, this topic started off in mistruths and misconceptions... and hasn't stopped yet. The title BIBLE BASHERS is ridiculus. Please define what a "Bible Basher" is.... Mormon missionaries don't even come close. All your allegations about their character and work efforts are complete and utter rubbish. Yet, instead of just admitting that fact, you dig deeper and deeper into your hole of lies. Please be honest and decent enough to stop now.
  10. Evolution is different to "how old the earth is". You sound like you know what you are talking about.... what are the artifacts, tombs etc. that contradict the book of mormon? We know of course that there were different cultures living in Meso America, but who's to say that the people described in the book were not living among them? We must be careful in the conclusions that we reach. The Book of Mormon teaches the history of three distinct peoples, or two peoples and three different colonies of people, who came from the old world to this continent. It does not tell us that there was no one here before them. It does not tell us that people did not come after. And so if discoveries are made which suggest differences in race origins, it can very easily be accounted for, and reasonably, for we do believe that other people came to this continent. (Ivins, 1929, p. 15)
  11. I don't have an answer on the age of the earth. No one knows how old the earth is, and there is no doctrine taught on the subject. The church has no official standpoint. As for the other questions about Moroni and other prophets, again, no evidence can be given. It is hard to provide evidence for an individual within an ancient civilisation. If the book of Mormon is a true account, then Moroni was a real man.... but I guess that's all there is to it. Have you read any of the Book?
  12. Absolutely!! My Mum was raised in Peel and she taught us that song. Far more traditional. We used to sing that one. My disappointment with Hop-tu-naa is that fewer children seem to take part. Fewer children... and more teenagers throwing eggs!!!!! I live in governors hill now so.... send you children round! I've got the treats ready in waiting. I'm an avid supporter of our traditions!!
  13. Uh-huh! Something so simple... and yet I find myself continually buying it in corner shops instead! Think of all those 50p's I have been wasting!!!
  14. I think Chinahands point was that those issues are some of the basic foundations of the Mormon Church. if you can't answer them you cannot have done much research on the basis for your whole religion. If you are not "personally trained in archeological, genetic and cultural traditions of the western hemisphere" how can you claim that the basis of your religion is correct. Do they not teach that on the course you went on? (Please don't respond with more bullshit. opinions are opinions. Regurgitation is just regurgitation). edit: spelling You must understand that Christianity is based on faith and spiritual matters.... not necessarily physical evidence. God himself does not convince by force and evidence that he exists. We believe that he expects us to develop our spirituality through prayer and scripture study etc. and relying on the holy spirit. Now I have read much into the subject of evidences on the book of mormon because it interests me but there is soo much detail on the subject that I cannot recite it all to you. I know some few points, but i leave the rest to the experts. In the church we don't teach the "physical evidences" because that is not what the church is about. We believe through faith and spiritual experiences. BUT if you are really interested in the evidence... you can read through http://www.jefflindsay.com/BMEvidences.shtml I do know the basics and more of my church... but evidences and such for my beliefs do not hold a great emthasis in my life. It is not the physical that builds a believer but the spiritual. Just as in reading the evidences, at the end it may make no difference to you... because that's the way with physical things. People interpret in their own way... but with the spiritual, it is a whole lot more convincing!!
  15. Allow me to paste a text which I believe may help answer some of the questions: The Church has one of the largest genealogical libraries in the world. Under the direction of its Family History Department, the Church and its members have gathered millions of volumes of birth, marriage, death, and other records. Today hundreds of millions of microfilmed records are available for research. The library is open to the public and is situated adjacent to historic Temple Square in downtown Salt lake City, Utah. In addition, there are hundreds of family history centers throughout the world. Copies of the records are stored in a spacious vault carved out of a solid granite mountain in a canyon near Salt Lake City. This massive cavern permanently safeguards these valuable records from natural disaster and preserves them under ideal storage conditions. To appreciate the Church's emphasis on genealogy, it is necessary to understand the importance of the family in the lives of Latter-day Saints. Mormons who obey the teachings of Christ may enter into a marriage covenant that lasts not only until death, but continues eternally. These eternal marriages are solemnized in the temples of the Church. In addition, the Church teaches that those who have died without a true knowledge of the gospel of Jesus Christ may be baptized in a temple (see "Temples") by proxy. Proxy temple work, including baptism and marriage, opens the way for people who have died without a full knowledge of the gospel to accept the gospel's saving principles and to participate in its necessary ordinances. The living gather vital statistics on their ancestors so that the dead can have all the blessings of the gospel. [My comment: see 1 Cor. 15:29, 1 Peter 3:18, 19, and 1 Peter 4:6.] The local church on the island has a small family history centre which is open to the public. You can use the computers there to better your family research. Family History benefits the church in two main ways. One, it helps individuals (probably like yourself) who are interested in family history to have the necessary documents avaliable to them for their research. Two, we believe in the church that in order for a man/woman to return to the presence of God, certain actions must take place. 1. One must accept the message of Christ 2. Repent and be baptised in his name. That being the case, logically, we are faced with a problem. What happens to all those who have died without ever hearing the message or having a chance to be baptised? We believe that when we die (and our spirits are seperated from our bodies) our spirits go to a place we refer to as a 'spirit world' to await the resurrection (which takes place at the second coming of Christ). We believe that during this time in waiting, the spirits there are given a chance to hear and accept Christ as their Saviour. Those who at that time choose to accept his sacrifice and teachings are still left without one thing - Baptism. We believe that a person here on earth can be baptised in the name and place of one who has died. NOT therefore 'forcing' people into the church... but doing that essential work for them here so that IF they then accept the teachings in the spirit world, there is nothing then holding them back. Am I confusing you? Probably.. but if you are a chrisitan, you may be familiar with the scripture in 1 Cor. 15:29 which talks of Baptisms for the dead. Why then does the church need names of ancestors? So that this work can be done. A member may find the name of a deceased grandfather and then take his name to the temple (where this special work is done) and be baptised in his name or on his behalf in the hope that that grandfather will accept the gospel message in the spirit world. It's kinda complicated I guess and I'm probably not explaining it very well. But I hope this gives you an idea of why family history is so important to the church. We believe that an essential work needs to be done for all those who have died. For your personal use, if you are interested in your own family history, you can use the computers at our local church, or try using this site: http://www.familysearch.org/ I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to family history being honest. My Parents have completed 4 generations on both sides of the family... and I guess I kinda left it up to them! If you have any further questions though, I could get the answers for you.. my father knows a lot more than myself on the topic.
  16. When was the world created, and how old is it? What evidence is there for the claims in the Book of Mormon, the existence of Moroni and the prophets of the western hemisphere. How does this evidence compare with archeological, genetic and cultural traditions of the Western Hemisphere. Oh DjDan ... I don't want any web sites ... I want your opinion and thoughts thank you. You want me to answer your questions without any reference to websites? I admire your faith in me, but I'm hardly personally trained in archeological, genetic and cultural traditions of the western hemisphere!! There is a website that will help answer the questions... but I'm not the author of it! The Book of Mormon stands as evidence for itself. It's complexity and diversity make it near impossible that a 14 year old could have created the whole scheme. The book of Alma chapter 36 offers a classic example of chiasmus - a poetic form of writing not known to have existed in the 1800's (therefore clearly unknown by Joseph Smith). The speech of King Benjamin (a king within the Book of Mormon) follows relative traditions of such from that era and culture in the manner in which it took place. In the very beginning of the book, it describes a journey through a desert around Israel (the specific place unknown). It descibes geographical occurances in the desert like places of water and vegetation, which have been proven to be the case.. which again were unknown in 1825. It also mentions the name of places which have been found to be actual local names from the region. The greatest evidence for the book of mormon is actually spiritual, but you won't believe that one anyway. But the fact that no one has managed to put forward a decent case to prove that the book of mormon was made up suggest something rather blatantly obvious. Have you read any part of the book of mormon?
  17. I'd rather be ignorant than some knob who is being used by other people as a source of income. You may think this is about religion, but one day when you are older and wiser (if that is possible) you'll look back on these posts and realise what a total twat you've been to buy into this pretence. I have to say I have nothing against your religion, just your misplaced sense that you are 1) spreading good and saving souls and 2) not being used in some pyramid scheme. How many times have I heard the "older and wiser" claim? lol. As if that were even true. I suppose the prophet and president of the church who is 96 yrs old is still too young and clueless?? Your opinion is your opinion.
  18. Oooh.... very aggresive!!! LOL. Trust me, they've heard worse than that. More than likely, they'll find such a comment very amusing.
  19. Another misconception. Some people shove the leaflets in the bin.... others take them home, read them and then request further discussions on the topic. Hardly a pointless effort. And no, we do not believe that you heathens will burn in hell. If you want to replace your misconceptions and know what we DO believe instead of what we DON'T.. then you can check out the website: www.lds.org.uk www.mormon.org
  20. Ignorance is bliss huh? I guess the first thing I should point out to you, is that these "smart young men in suits" are not from the 'Life Church'. They are missionaries from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. A totally different Christian church, so all the other comments in this topic related to the Life Church are irrelevant. We all know the account of the pastor from that church.... but these young men in suits are nothing related. Now to educate you a little.. these young men volunteer 2 years of their life, generally from 19-21 and travel to another country in a desire to share a message with people. You may notice them knocking on doors and stopping people on the street but all they do is OFFER a message and ASK if that person would like to hear it. I don't see what is so irritating about them. They don't push, they don't force, they don't interregate, they don't scream out their message... all they do is politely offer it. If you say NO, then fine... but that's all you have to say. What's the problem with that? I gave two years of my life from Oct. 2002 to Oct. 2004 and did the same thing in London. I am a member of the church and I know all the work that they do... I did it. Ignorant people like you criticise a work you know nothing about. It's not unusual to have people swear at you, slam doors in your face, threaten you etc. when you do this work... but as a 'missionary' you come to expect that. It's funny, because all I ever did, and all these young men will do, is politely offer a message - yet people will try to reject you in the most offensive manner when a simple 'no' will suffice! Now, why should they stop people and try to speak with them? Because it works. YOU may not be interested, but hundreds of other people are. Hundreds of other people gladly discuss with them and hundreds of people have had their lives changed through the work that these young men do. Again, I know personally of that fact. You may not believe in a God, that's fine... it's up to you. BUT you cannot stop a work that these young men do. Your criticisms are ignorant and in vain. I don't really see what all the fuss is. shoepatshoe, if you want to spend 10 mins of your time and tell these guys about your interests, then I'm sure they'd be happy to listen to you. Why don't you walk up to them the next time you see them and try it? In return, I'm also sure that they'd gladly give you a leaflet! Again, if you don't want to join our church, then fine. They won't force you. They only ask. However, you need to realise that it is NOT the Life Church. Just another minor point... these guys are not paid for the work they do. Instead, they save up money before they travel and contribute the money toward the financing of the missionary program. They definately do not need a work permit. They are not "working". Any other questions, I'll happily answer.
  21. DjDan

    Cheap Labour

    Hey, is that figure quoted from somewhere? I'm just curious. I've been to the lifechurch (only 3 weeks ago) just to see what it was like... and to see this pitiful Pastor preach... as it happens there were only 13 people there!! Where are the 800? That figure must be wrong... or if that's what the pastor claims himself... he's lying again. Anyway... someone please tell me how this man got away with 3 months??! Does anyone really believe that he had no idea about the wages scam? He should have been tried for both. If he wasn't paying them close-to-nothing, why would he have imported them all the way from South Africa?? What a 'Man of God' he isn't.
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