Heffalump

Living hope tithing Interesting video from Living Hope church. My questions are: 1. Is there anyone who has been witness to, or can provide evidence of the church helping them…..they suggest 30 in their own church and hundreds more outside… Genuine question! 2. Is this theology “prosperity preaching”? https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2013/may/29/prosperity-gospel-mockery-christianity Maybe their context is totally different than the one referred to above. interested to hear of any “good news” stories, which perhaps equate to the type of income this church appears to receive.

No, but I do believe in Santa if that helps

Ha ha, True......except, they’re a charity, all staff are not theologically trained, bar the main leader who has a bog standard degree with no leadership of a church in Ireland prior to taking this role. I suppose that doesn’t matter as long as the sheep are convinced by ‘love bombing’ (yes it’s a thing!) that this is an essential part of life in living together and not having anything to do with the great unwashed. Amazing how the excessive salaries imho compared to other denominations then be defended and accepted by members. But they probably know if they were to say anything then the whole institution would leave them bereft of any friendship with immediate rebuke and disassociation, and by that stage they’ve cut off other friendships outside of the church.

Surprised this hasn’t came up? http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=59019&headline=Living Hope pastors take a small pay cut&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2020

Ha ha, just don’t ask the people in PSM about the house that mr stanfield had last in PSM which couldn’t sell and in order to move up to douglas which was needed to happen in spite of the sale as he saw it as an opportunity to go big time in the big smoke of Douglas, the church subidised the rent on “that house” for over a year whilst he still had the other house. Oh and there’s never does seem to be an honest answer as to how he really afforded all of this. Or the minister in peel who had his rent subidised until he sold his house in Scotland. Or one of the leaders in peel who had to leave the island a short time after the church’s South African partner Andrew Selley and josh gen told members to hit children with certain sticks if they disobeyed, later to withdraw this teaching as it caused so much bother. The local leader challenged this with a statement on his own Facebook page and was met with such venom from local and South African leaders that he had to leave the island a couple of months after the issue happened as the leadership and members were seeing him as being against their leadership and teaching. He was apparently distraught. or did you know that the cinema which is used on sundays was refurbished by living hope church as an agreement to rent. Thousands was spent on that and completely gutting and rebuilding the building opposite. or what happened to the great outreach for money to build a great church in Douglas. Where did that money go and why did they change their mind? At one stage they had been looking at using the old prison as a building site???

This is well documented in this and previous threads. To give a flavour: 1. Mr stanfield cajoled the Louis group opened their building and enjoyed trips at the benefit of mr lakos, who is one of the directors banned from serving as a director by the FSC along of course with current pastor Rousseau moss also banned. I’m sure those that contributed to Louis group under the favour of living hope certainly feel aggrieved. 2. I know personally of people who attended the church in the past and dared to question the methods adopted by the leadership in never ending world wide mission trips and free gratis benefits like rent being paid whilst trying to find a house while selling their own, and all at the expense of the flock. Their questioning was met with pure venom and they were named as slanderers and where blackballed by not only the leadership but also by other members and set up as an example of how control meant no questioning was allowed. The leadership know best. They have been greatly disturbed by the hurtful ness of the experience and in many cases never went near another church, never mind the fact that in some cases the leadership would actually have born false witness to other leaders in other churches about the members behaviour. To give a flavour of this doctrine check out chris staples latest blog.https://www.four12global.com/authors/chrisstaples/dont-do-the-devils-work-for-him/ 3. The “house” nothing more needs said. 4. The secretive nature of their control now. People leave and are scared to speak up as the teaching in the church is that in speaking out against the “work” you are doing the devils work. 5. How they moved from being a satellite church of broadway baptist to getting broadway trustees to disassociate themselves from control of port st Mary church so mr stanfield could take control of all finances through his chosen directors many of whom are the pastors, deciding things like wages etc. 6. The desire to distance themselves from any other church on the island and whilst they cunningly would negate this by saying they are in various bodies that work together the reality is they see themselves as the only real church that has it right. See what happened in the schools. Many years of great work by scripture union and other church charities were nearly done away with due to people’s reluctance to have any living hope people about the place. Just a taste of many worrying things.

To be fair mr stanfield from memory resigned from southern befrienders a couple of years back as it probably got in the way of the “work”. The article claims that stanfield recieved approx £63,000 if an annual salary! I suppose charity begins at home (no pun intended) but it makes you understand why a previous tv salesman smiles at every opportunity. just don’t challenge him or his cohort about it, you may end up getting the cold shoulder from both him and the self proclaimed apostles!

And they are back in the news...... apparently the pastors have given themselves a pay rise according to the iom newspapers. A few comments about how they help people in the community. Does anybody actually know what they do that helps?

To quote from the above article “While the exchange between the king and the prophet is so bizarre that it is tempting to just laugh it off, there is a humbling lesson for all of us in the actions of Ahab. The truth is that each one of us will occasionally miss God’s message to us because of our sentiments regarding the messenger that God uses. .... When we are confronted by people in church there are many different reasons why I could take offence at what they say to me. It could be because I don’t like what they are saying. Maybe it is the tone in which they speak. Possibly it is because my relationship with the person has a checkered history. It could simply be that their personality clashes with mine! These are all trivial things but they can have massive implications if we dismiss the person as a “trouble maker” and miss the voice of God speaking through them. Sometimes God will even test how much we reverence his words to us by speaking through a messenger which requires the most humility to listen to. By rejecting the words of God’s appointed messenger (whoever they be) you can inadvertently reject God’s purposes for your life and even invoke his judgement! (Mat 10:14,15)” so, if other Christians are concerned with practices in living hope, is there the humility to listen? To get to the point, is this part of the “church” of god or just their own church?

But, this person from their four 12 group has kinda given a different message..... I’m confused as he suggests that instead of dismissing awkward persons you should maybe think differently.... http://www.four12global.com/articles/christian-living/who-is-really-offending-you/

Also in connection with the reference this morning to Mr Stanfield suggesting that people remove untruths and how he doesn’t get too involved in it. This series of blogs shows how wolves in sheeps clothing should be expected to be treated. https://lovegodlovepeoplelovelife.wordpress.com/2013/02/20/a-dummies-guide-to-spotting-wolves-in-sheeps-clothing/

This video was quite some time ago but shows the perils of speaking against the men in authority of the church.

From the four 12 global Facebook page. A plea for support from living hope pastor Euan McRae. “Stand with us in prayer for our Partners in the Isle of Man, and even more so for the uninhibited sharing of the gospel and freedom of religion worldwide! #pray #freedom #partners "After a fantastic Four12 conference we should not have been surprised that some of the enemy’s cages had been rattled! Certainly on the Isle of Man it is vital for followers of Jesus from every denomination to stand shoulder to shoulder as a new wave of christianophobia rises against the church. It saddens me to have to share the following statement but due to the inaccuracies and frankly twisted reporting of some local news outlets it is on this occasion necessary to graciously respond. We would really value your prayers as we continue to share the good news of Jesus on the Isle of Man." - Euan MacRae”

This was the post in iom news and politics: “This post is being done under a pseudonym due to fear of libel action and intimidation from the living hope church. This week has been a very tough experience for me. On Thursday evening I was at the Living Hope Church conference in the Villa Marina. I have been a member of the church for about a year now and these past couple of days have shown me the true side of the living hope church. The Thursday evening had a pastor from South Africa called Ryan Kingsley who gave a homophobic sermon on “sexual immorality”. The pastor used the analogy of a flock of sheep and if one sheep has cut its leg, it infects the rest of the Flock. He told us to “look out for wolfs in sheeps clothing”. Shocked and stunned, I walked out of the villa as this was to far. The day previous at the villa a gentleman with Prostate cancer was told that he did not need to take his medication or go to hospital as the “Holy Spirit would heal him” from a pastor called Jason Livingston. I was shocked. I’m sorry that it has had to come to me venting my anger and upset through Facebook but I feel this is the only way I will get my story across. Many people have left the church as it is becoming more and more extortianate. They were asking tbat we sell our houses and remortgage our homes in order to fund the Church. I’ve attached a Photo of the standing order form used by the church. They are asking for more and more money to fund churches in South Africa as the Joshua Generation church is getting thrown out of buildings due to the extreme views such as whipping children and preaching death to homosexuals. I hope this post does some good. Regards J”

Very interesting post just put on by someone who is scared to put their name to their post due to fear of intimidation. See below. Has this all gone to far?? When is a charity not a charity but a profit making enterprise for those in the know? Quoted from iom news and politics “ This post is being done under a pseudonym due to fear of libel action and intimidation from the living hope church. This week has been a very tough experience for me. On Thursday evening I was at the Living Hope Church conference in the Villa Marina. I have been a member of the church for about a year now and these past couple of days have shown me the true side of the living hope church. The Thursday evening had a pastor from South Africa called Ryan Kingsley who gave a homophobic sermon on “sexual immorality”. The pastor used the analogy of a flock of sheep and if one sheep has cut its leg, it infects the rest of the Flock. He told us to “look out for wolfs in sheeps clothing”. Shocked and stunned, I walked out of the villa as this was to far. The day previous at the villa a gentleman with Prostate cancer was told that he did not need to take his medication or go to hospital as the “Holy Spirit would heal him” from a pastor called Jason Livingston. I was shocked. I’m sorry that it has had to come to me venting my anger and upset through Facebook but I feel this is the only way I will get my story across. Many people have left the church as it is becoming more and more extortianate. They were asking tbat we sell our houses and remortgage our homes in order to fund the Church. I’ve attached a Photo of the standing order form used by the church. They are asking for more and more money to fund churches in South Africa as the Joshua Generation church is getting thrown out of buildings due to the extreme views such as whipping children and preaching death to homosexuals. I hope this post does some good. Regards J”