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3 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Sorry HeliX, cheap shot. This whole thing is obviously a complex issue, it's not going to be solved with silly name calling, which is more or less what the 'gang' did to Stu Peters last night. That is not taking hold of the situation and convincing him or anyone else of anything, it's the silencing of debate. A technique which smacks a bit of Common Purpose, who seem to want to live in a socio/fascist utopia where we are 'encouraged' to have the same beliefs and opinions. 

Racism will die out eventually as the people who have perpetuated it die out. At present it is still about even in very young people, even though many white people marched with the civil rights protesters in the 50s and 60s. Quite a few paid with their lives for BLM but it has led to slow progress. I don't know the answers, any more than those who seem to have cost a man his job for talking. If people are not allowed to form their own opinions then we will end up in a worse situation as people start wondering what side of an argument to be on. It's easy in these days to be pushed into saying something which others may think is wrong, Tolerance and understanding has to work both ways, it's the only way. 

I think this is a fair take. I wouldn't agree that it was a gang shutting Peters down though. I think he accidentally stumbled across a topic that's likely to have a lot of well informed, passionate and resolute people keeping an eye on media about it, and wasn't ready for that level of interaction.

I also wouldn't necessarily agree that racism will die out without continued pressure.

Otherwise I think you're about right.

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8 minutes ago, Kopek said:

It's because I am intelligent that I ask  others to understand that there are other options to consider than pure prejudice.

How foolish of you!  But let's just think what prejudice actually means - it is to prejudge, ie to have made a decision without considering the specific factors.  It does not mean that you cannot exercise judgement, just that you should take the specific factors into account, rather than making your mind up before. 

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1 hour ago, Mr Newbie said:

As only 45% of the population are Manx I wouldn’t necessarily argue with that figure. We also live on an Island where the last census records that there are 8,000 South Africans resident.

No there aren't.  The 2016 Census is not particularly helpful to get the correct figures and there's probably a processing error on Others, but it only shows 470 people in total with all African nationalities. Now some ex SA residents may have been entitled to or since obtained British (or EU) nationality since, and the fact that 1077 moved here from Africa (see p 23) suggests that some did that.  But at most it can only be about 1000, not 8000.

In fact only 7082 people in total (8.5%) were born outside the British Isles at all.  

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6 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

No there aren't.  The 2016 Census is not particularly helpful to get the correct figures and there's probably a processing error on Others, but it only shows 470 people in total with all African nationalities. Now some ex SA residents may have been entitled to or since obtained British (or EU) nationality since, and the fact that 1077 moved here from Africa (see p 23) suggests that some did that.  But at most it can only be about 1000, not 8000.

In fact only 7082 people in total (8.5%) were born outside the British Isles at all.  

According to World population review it’s 7% of the population which makes it at least 6,000 people.

 

92AFE026-2674-4328-8308-0483EA86766A.jpeg

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29 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

Not obvious to me at all. Set up or not to open his mouth and say stupid things he still said them.

Would it be acceptable for me to state that you believe that as I understand you are German and we know all Germans have underlying Nazi sympathies and think that the Aryan race are superior and then say it was fine to say that as you set me up?

I think that to accuse you of that or any German would be pretty outrageous but then I think that to suggest that Obama being president shows that their is no discrimination against black people in the USA or black people etc in the IoM suffer the same level of abuse as those who are fat or ginger.

Set up or not he opened his mouth and say stupid things. His punishment for that? A slap across the knuckles I think should be sufficient and to be frank some of the postings on here defending what he said I find far more offensive. Judging by many of the postings on here I think that the figures on the 2009 report about racism in the IoM are understated if this site was representative of the IoM as a whole. Hopefully it is not. Mind you I think some of you would argue that if there was a mass lynching by KKK in the IoM you would be arguing it was the fault of those that were lynched as they had not run away fast enough not to be caught.

I'm done with this site

 

 

I don't like Germany so I really don't care what you say about me or the spot of dirt where I was born. There are a ton of Nazis still in Germany but it doesn't really relate to the comment he made on here that the callers picked up and collectively used to target him. For what it's worth,  I've heard more WW2 and Bomb Our Chippy jokes over here than I can count. Is that racist? 

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12 minutes ago, Mr Newbie said:

According to World population review it’s 7% of the population which makes it at least 6,000 people.

 

92AFE026-2674-4328-8308-0483EA86766A.jpeg

The briefest of glances at that source would tell you it is nonsense. Are there no Chinese or Filipino people here? Or other europeans? 

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43 minutes ago, Max Power said:

If people are not allowed to form their own opinions then we will end up in a worse situation as people start wondering what side of an argument to be on. It's easy in these days to be pushed into saying something which others may think is wrong, Tolerance and understanding has to work both ways, it's the only way. 

People WILL form their own opinions, but if they are stifled in voicing them and debating them, their opinions will become trenchant.  It is only through open, constructive debate can an opinion ever be changed.  There is some (mis)quote along the lines of "you can make me change my actions but not my mind." 

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14 minutes ago, Mr Newbie said:

According to World population review it’s 7% of the population which makes it at least 6,000 people.

 

92AFE026-2674-4328-8308-0483EA86766A.jpeg

That makes absolutely no sense and I can't see where they get their figures from.  Do you really think there are 5% Australians?  According to the Census there's only 5 (I think this is wrong as well).  I suspect they are applying some formula derived from UK data

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1 minute ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

That's petty nonsense from the Creamery. 

Most businesses will tend to withdraw sponsorship over controversy, regardless of whether an 'offence' is found to have been the case or not.

It's a gut PR reaction.  

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My opinion on this...Well, talk about making a 'rod for your own back'...

Stu let these conversations go on far too long - and as a result got sucked into a conversation chain where all kinds of issues (that are by definition intellectually complex) such as the issue of 'white privilege' were being discussed. If you don't understand or research these issues and terms properly, and let the conversation go on too long, you are going to fall into traps - and instead of pulling back, Stu carried on regardless - walking into a minefield of his own making.

There's nothing wrong with debating these issues, but Stu did come across as being patronising - even laughing and comparing skin colour to being overweight or being ginger etc. And to say 'blacker than black' when talking about such a sensitive topic at an especially highly charged and emotional time was also pretty stupid. And to refer to that great intellectual purveyor of information as his source - YouTube...well, duh.

On the other hand, the 2nd caller especially - clearly seemed to me to have an agenda and didn't like Stu going off track against that agenda.

If Stu wanted a clear answer to 'why demonstrate on the island' - he should have stuck to that simple questioning and avoided the rest. But it's pretty obvious isn't it? Where else are people going to demonstrate? I'd have simply answered - we want the IOM Govt to write to the U.S. about their disgust on this matter etc.

Overall, would I say Stu came across as racist? - Yes a little, but these conversations need to be had - but properly researched.

If Stu reflected a little, apologised for any offence seemingly caused and offered a reconciliation type conversation without laughing and being dismissive - then that could be a positive thing. But I can't see that happening, because Manx Radio will likely want to steer clear of anything like that - and let this all go quiet - and being honest, Stu is not the person for chairing such a detailed discussion. Though maybe a programme on 'Is racism an issue on the island' chaired by the likes of Beth Espey, with those callers, Stu and a couple of local intellectuals etc. involved - might be a far better solution. 

But also, Stu does have the right to an opinion - no matter how ill-informed or poorly researched that might be, or how close to the line that might be.

And if you ring a talk show at 11pm in the evening, don't necessarily expect an intellectual debate if you have an agenda.

 

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Gladys said:

I didn't get the feeling he was trying to  discred BLM, just what the purpose of a demo here was.  It certainly seemed like an ambush, three confrontational callers in quick succession which were intent, not on a debate, but on discrediting the presenter.  None of the three actually engaged, just tirades.  The presenter tried to discuss back and was talked over.  It was just dreadful. 

How do you engage with a Presenter that constantly interrupts and scoffs at your points? The callers were intelligent and articulate. Stu didn’t like that. 
 

If he just wants to be a shock jock challenging the listening and provoking anger, how come he’s all matey with the callers that follow. 

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