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Any One Agreed To Buy A Dandara Apartment In Manchester?


Phyllis
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A few points:-

Most landlords have mortgages on their property so falling rents will mean that many properties will be repossessed as 'greedy' landlords can no longer afford to make the payments.

There will be a shortage of rental property as no one will now touch buy to let.

The reality will be as in America - lots and lots of empty property going to rack and ruin.

Tenants have had a good time of it in recent years - plenty of good quality accommodation that is affordable. 20 years ago it was grotty rooms in Rigsby like houses with dodgy gas fires and guess what - that will be the future!

 

On the contrary, the properties will be sold off very cheaply at auction, and more experienced and better-heeled BTL people will buy them and let them at more reasonable rents.

 

S

 

I don't think so:-

Successful sales at auction are on rapid decline.

http://www.rics.org/Newsroom/Pressreleases...es_03032008.htm

 

The well heeled landlords you mentioned did not get that way by being nice to tenants. Try a google on Hoogstraten.

If you have a decent landlord now - just pray he can manage to pay the mortgage - and even wants to.

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A few points:-

Most landlords have mortgages on their property so falling rents will mean that many properties will be repossessed as 'greedy' landlords can no longer afford to make the payments.

There will be a shortage of rental property as no one will now touch buy to let.

The reality will be as in America - lots and lots of empty property going to rack and ruin.

Tenants have had a good time of it in recent years - plenty of good quality accommodation that is affordable. 20 years ago it was grotty rooms in Rigsby like houses with dodgy gas fires and guess what - that will be the future!

 

On the contrary, the properties will be sold off very cheaply at auction, and more experienced and better-heeled BTL people will buy them and let them at more reasonable rents.

 

S

 

I don't think so:-

Successful sales at auction are on rapid decline.

http://www.rics.org/Newsroom/Pressreleases...es_03032008.htm

 

The well heeled landlords you mentioned did not get that way by being nice to tenants. Try a google on Hoogstraten.

If you have a decent landlord now - just pray he can manage to pay the mortgage - and even wants to.

 

I would worry about yourself Phyllis rather than others. I mean who is going to want to rent your box in Manchesterwhen you have to complete on it or were you looking to "flip" it ?

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A few points:-

Most landlords have mortgages on their property so falling rents will mean that many properties will be repossessed as 'greedy' landlords can no longer afford to make the payments.

There will be a shortage of rental property as no one will now touch buy to let.

The reality will be as in America - lots and lots of empty property going to rack and ruin.

Tenants have had a good time of it in recent years - plenty of good quality accommodation that is affordable. 20 years ago it was grotty rooms in Rigsby like houses with dodgy gas fires and guess what - that will be the future!

 

I'd argue the opposite

 

1. Many properties will be repossessed but if the banks can't sell them on they'll end up doing deals with tenants to keep income coming in. The more greedy the landlord was the more of his properties will be coming up.

 

2. There will be no shortage of rental property. How can their be as the property still exists its not like the flats already built are going to vanish. What will happen is that it becomes a buyers or a renters market and those owning the property (the original BTL or their bank if repossessed) will have to offer more favourable terms to let or buy as they will need to offet or cut their losses.

 

3. That is not necessarily the case in America - at some stage that property will have to be sold or let at a fair market rate. That fair market rate might not be a good rate but some income is better than none. What is happening is that some of the properties were so overvalued that even at a 50% drop in price sufficient people are not interested yet.

 

4. Tenants have not necessarily had a good time. They have just had more disposable income and yet remained priced out of the mortgage market and therefore better quality housing bought by other people has been offered to them.

 

5. Grubby lets won't be the future because back to point 2; the properties still exist. Even if they have been repossesed at some stage these dormant assets will need to generate some sort of income or be sold at some sort of discounted cost to partially recoup or offset losses. There are already being big deals done with the banks to buy portfolios of distressed stock that will be packaged up for cheap lets - in a low interest rate climate the cheap letting of hundreds of houses bought at big discounts is better than leaving money on deposit.

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I am buying a spectrum apartment in the IOM. I just wondered if anyone has had the same issues over dates:

 

1. Originally advised verbally that the property would be completed in 2/3 phases (I cannot remember so long ago). Phase 1 in June/July 2008 which I am buying

2. I was then told autumn 2008 and all phases being built together

3. I was then told in early summer 2008 that it would be complete Spring 2009 and when I tried to pin down a month I was repeatedly told we be "spring 2009" which in my book can range anywhere form jan to may 2009! At this point I said look you can keep my 5% deposit and we can cancel the contract. No joy. I increased my offer to another 5% to terminate the contract and was happy to get my cheque book out. That didn't work either.

4. I was then told Nov 2008/Dec 2008 which I secured a mortgage for on a 75% LTV valid for 3 months up to mid December

5. I was then told Feb 2009 and now have a letter Feb 2009/Mar 2009.

 

I have repeated letters reminding me to get my mortgage ready but its impossible if they keep on moving the completion date! Even in good economic times, banks wouldn't make you an indefinite offer!

 

I was chatting to one my legal friends who doesn't know too much about property law but sayes there may be an exit using "making time of the essence" because you cannot have an indefinite contract without making best/reasonable efforts (I cannot remember which in this case and I know it makes a big difference in the legal sense) to complete the contract. I know they would argue weather etc. but a few people have told me that dandara have taken 1 month xmas holiday which is longer than the traditional building industry xmas break. Can anyone confirm this?

 

I have tried to find an independent lawyer in the iom to discuss this but I have struggled to find someone because they all seem to have a conflict of interests. I am tempted to find one next week but I just wondered if I am wasting my money? I am quite happy to spend a couple of hours to find where I stand. What does everyone think?

 

Out of interest Dandara paid for me legal expenses when we exchange contracts.... is this a potential breach?

 

Maybe an opportunity for a good iom lawyer to operate on a no win, no fee basis. I am sure a few people would be interested in pay 3k or 4k to exit the contract....maybe pay 5% deposit if you can get the deposit back :-)

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sparco, I wonder how many of those flats actually have buyers? I am sure you are not alone . . . .

 

The flats market - certainly on the Isle of Man - is pretty disastrous just now but obviously the developers aren't going to broadcast that are they. It seems the strategy is to make them more or less watertight and wait for the market to improve.

 

I know of one development that is less than 10% occupied now and yet was planned to have been completely sold by October.

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The flat market is a flat market. Does anyone know what the planning strategy of the last few years aimed to achieve beyond developer profit? The Isle of Man is a family based society, and families do not really want to live in gardenless boxes up in the air even if there is a lovely sea view and the finish is top quality, which it often isn't. The huge number of apartments given the thumbs up in recent years could never have been intended to be fully occupied. Are they purely to provide convenient off shore addresses for high net worth individuals?

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I know of one development that is less than 10% occupied now and yet was planned to have been completely sold by October.

 

I've often wondered about this - did the Central Apartments ever get filled up, for example?

 

I've never understood who the market is supposed to be for all these tiny apartments on the IOM, yes we have single people and couples for who they'd be suitable, but beyond that surely family housing (even the tidgy Dandara FTB stuff) is going to be more in demand?

 

Add in the fact that the apartments often have the same asking price (or near enough) of a small house, and you have to wonder who the hell is buying them!?!?

 

The ones we looked around when we were buying a couple of years ago were nice enough as far as fit and finish was concerned (maybe they weren't Dandara.....), but they were actually more expensive than 4-bed Victorian build terraced houses, and bloody tiny into the bargain! (Although admittedly the Douglas/Ramsey divide was a factor there.)

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I am buying a spectrum apartment in the IOM. I just wondered if anyone has had the same issues over dates:

 

5. I was then told Feb 2009 and now have a letter Feb 2009/Mar 2009.

 

I have repeated letters reminding me to get my mortgage ready but its impossible if they keep on moving the completion date! Even in good economic times, banks wouldn't make you an indefinite offer!

 

I don't think anyone who lives here has seen any workmen on that site for a few months now. I'd be surprised if even March is achievable just by looking at the site as it stands.

 

and families do not really want to live in gardenless boxes up in the air even if there is a lovely sea view and the finish is top quality, which it often isn't.

 

In addition the lovely sea view is often tainted with a strong smell of shit and rotting sea weed. It must be really pleasant at the height of summer on some of those developments - you wouldn't be using your balcony.

 

The huge number of apartments given the thumbs up in recent years could never have been intended to be fully occupied. Are they purely to provide convenient off shore addresses for high net worth individuals?

 

Yes, quite clearly that was the case from day one. You could always tell by the number of lights on in some blocks each evening - nobody was living in them even when completed but they did provide you with that handy offshore address until the UK tax residency rules got revised last year.

Edited by hboy
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sparco, I wonder how many of those flats actually have buyers? I am sure you are not alone . . . .

 

The flats market - certainly on the Isle of Man - is pretty disastrous just now but obviously the developers aren't going to broadcast that are they. It seems the strategy is to make them more or less watertight and wait for the market to improve.

 

I know of one development that is less than 10% occupied now and yet was planned to have been completely sold by October.

 

I have been thinking about this more and because we have exchanged contracts we all have shares in the management company. As a shareholder I wonder what is stopping us contacting other shareholders to find out how many there are etc. Maybe worth a trip to company house to get a list of shareholders.... this information is normally available. Working together we could stand upto dandara and get more of an accurate picture of what is going on. My view is that they have sat back on the development finishing off others e.g. the courthouse

 

If they had finished when orginally suggested I could have had a more competitive mortgage and better LTV. My LTV has gone from 20%, to 25% and I reckon next week when I apply again for a mortgage they will want 30% LTV. My view is property is a longterm investment and I was happy to ride it out but occasionally you need to draw a line in the sand.

 

Does anyone know if "making time of the essence" would work if I applied for a court order for it to be completed by the end of March? Or is this a dead duck idea? Compensation would be my 5% deposit but in this instance to make life easy I would maybe write off the 5% for a quick settlement...however, I know they will fight back because everyone else would follow suit so maybe a collective effort would be better. 20 people chipping in 2k for legal fees would do a lot more than one individual....

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The flat market is a flat market. Does anyone know what the planning strategy of the last few years aimed to achieve beyond developer profit? The Isle of Man is a family based society, and families do not really want to live in gardenless boxes up in the air even if there is a lovely sea view and the finish is top quality, which it often isn't. The huge number of apartments given the thumbs up in recent years could never have been intended to be fully occupied. Are they purely to provide convenient off shore addresses for high net worth individuals?

Many older people don't want the hassle of a garden or a house to maintain.

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I have been thinking about this more and because we have exchanged contracts we all have shares in the management company. As a shareholder I wonder what is stopping us contacting other shareholders to find out how many there are etc. Maybe worth a trip to company house to get a list of shareholders.... this information is normally available

 

IOM Companies Registry Online - where you can look up IOM company details. To view company documents online there is a fee. (ETA: you can see what documents are there first without logging on or paying a fee). The annual return will list the names and addresses of all shareholders - at the time that the last annual return was submitted. Shareholders etc added / changed since then have to be added on additional forms within 30 days IIRC.

 

If you go to the Companies Registry in person you can look up the shareholder details etc on their computers without paying a fee.

 

Someone else here will know what the procedure is for calling a general meeting.

Edited by pongo
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