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The Wave - New Project For Old Summerland Site


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5 minutes ago, code99 said:

 

Thank you for clarifying. I thought if a non-UK property was purchased by a UK resident via a non-UK company which is held in an offshore/non-UK domiciled trust, then the actual asset i.e. non-UK property is not subject to IHT...sorry my fault.

It is very complex, as most tax rules are because when a loophole is found it is plugged, then another loophole, plugged and so on until you have, literally, volumes of rules, and lots of exceptions and exemptions. 

What you describe is something that non-doms would do before becoming UK tax resident, the difficulty is to preserve the non-dom status (I know of one such client who decided to buy a burial plot in London which had all the advisers face palming at all their hard work in establishing a complex structure ruined in one stroke!).    

A UK taxpayer may buy property here, not for tax reasons but because it is a good investment or suits them for some other reason. 

 

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24 minutes ago, Gladys said:

It is very complex, as most tax rules are because when a loophole is found it is plugged, then another loophole, plugged and so on until you have, literally, volumes of rules, and lots of exceptions and exemptions. 

What you describe is something that non-doms would do before becoming UK tax resident, the difficulty is to preserve the non-dom status (I know of one such client who decided to buy a burial plot in London which had all the advisers face palming at all their hard work in establishing a complex structure ruined in one stroke!).    

A UK taxpayer may buy property here, not for tax reasons but because it is a good investment or suits them for some other reason. 

 

Thanks Gladys. I guess the new Duke of Westminster (and his accountants) can avail loopholes...

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/aug/11/inheritance-tax-why-the-new-duke-of-westminster-will-not-pay-billions

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6 hours ago, code99 said:

Thanks Gladys. I guess the new Duke of Westminster (and his accountants) can avail loopholes...

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/aug/11/inheritance-tax-why-the-new-duke-of-westminster-will-not-pay-billions

But the trusts were set up decades ago. Setting up the same now might not be as effective.

And yes, it can be worthwhile if you have “super” wealth. These structures aren’t cheap to run.

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12 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Of course we (a bit of) for over 100 years and lost it because the Manx Government were unwilling to support it in any way.  But the truth is that the best time to develop a university here was 50 years ago.  Indeed it was suggested then and the idea was greeted with horror by all the local establishment who didn't want all those clever people with their fancy learning around.  And it might interfere with the TT.

Since then the things that would have been advantages (lots of out of season accommodation) have gone and the university boom of the last two decades looks on its way out.  It's not a solution now.

I didn't realise that it had been considered Roger, how short sighted! 

I do believe though, beginning small that something could be grown which would eventually benefit the island. There would be a need for new accommodation, more vibrancy and sport etc etc. This could be transposed to the tourism sector in summer, growing both over a period of time. There could then be an influx of businesses related to the courses offered. I think the key is to start small, but start soon!

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12 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I didn't realise that it had been considered Roger, how short sighted! 

I do believe though, beginning small that something could be grown which would eventually benefit the island. There would be a need for new accommodation, more vibrancy and sport etc etc. This could be transposed to the tourism sector in summer, growing both over a period of time. There could then be an influx of businesses related to the courses offered. I think the key is to start small, but start soon!

Intensive 2 year English Language courses for wealthy Johnny Foreigners would work, except that we would have nowhere to house them unless they were built within the grounds of the Nunnery.

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On 7/25/2021 at 9:04 PM, AlanShimmin said:

What a shame this never came to fruition. 

Undecided if I am giving this post more credit that it is due as a joke, and people missed it. Or if it was a total fluke?

@alanshimmin comedy timing or complete fluke that you posted that very shortly after the waves appeared?

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15 minutes ago, Ramseyboi said:

 

Undecided if I am giving this post more credit that it is due as a joke, and people missed it. Or if it was a total fluke?

@alanshimmin comedy timing or complete fluke that you posted that very shortly after the waves appeared?

The waves? 

 

 

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12 hours ago, code99 said:

Thanks Gladys. I guess the new Duke of Westminster (and his accountants) can avail loopholes...

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/aug/11/inheritance-tax-why-the-new-duke-of-westminster-will-not-pay-billions

The Westminster trusts are a special case because they were set up very early for that sort of thing, not just because of their enormous and long-term wealth but because the Third Duke was brain damaged from birth, so some sort of provision would have to be made to cope when he inherited.

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1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

The Westminster trusts are a special case because they were set up very early for that sort of thing, not just because of their enormous and long-term wealth but because the Third Duke was brain damaged from birth, so some sort of provision would have to be made to cope when he inherited.

Sort of yes, and no. The land was entailed ( a type of trust ) going back centuries before the Dukedom was created. Although the entails may have been barred and settled into trusts as well.

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16 hours ago, code99 said:

 

Thank you for clarifying. I thought if a non-UK property was purchased by a UK resident via a non-UK company which is held in an offshore/non-UK domiciled trust, then the actual asset i.e. non-UK property is not subject to IHT...sorry my fault.

No need to apologise. The rules are complex and not widely appreciated.

I devoted half a career to fixing the messes people got into as a result of making simplistic assumptions.

 

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16 hours ago, Gladys said:

It is very complex, as most tax rules are because when a loophole is found it is plugged, then another loophole, plugged and so on until you have, literally, volumes of rules, and lots of exceptions and exemptions. 

What you describe is something that non-doms would do before becoming UK tax resident, the difficulty is to preserve the non-dom status (I know of one such client who decided to buy a burial plot in London which had all the advisers face palming at all their hard work in establishing a complex structure ruined in one stroke!).    

A UK taxpayer may buy property here, not for tax reasons but because it is a good investment or suits them for some other reason. 

 

Gladys makes a point and then provides the example that proves the point in so many ways.

For normal UK domiciliaries, sheltering assets from tax in offshore companies has largely, not been effective for many years. There were small areas where an advantage was possible by putting a UK property in an offshore company. Over the last 10 years those opportunities have been closed down one at a time and in some cases, the structures previously used would now involve more tax than would be charged without the offshore structure.

For example, offshore companies are now subject to CGT on the sale of UK property (previously non-residents were not generally subject to CGT) and where a non-dom (or trust he/she has created) holds a company which holds UK domestic property,  IHT is still chargeable (used to be treated as foreign asset, shares, so that IHT not in point).

There are gaps/loopholes but they are few and far between and, where there is doubt, the Courts these days are not sympathetic to aggressive schemes.

In general, much less scope than there used to be.

 

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17 hours ago, Max Power said:

We need a university here to give us a young and vibrant temporary population, the economic benefits would be a boost for locals and tourism!

When that was being proposed we didn’t have the money to fund. We’ve now got University College, issuing degrees validated by Chester. And of course the Marine Biological was a constituent part of Liverpool University with a hall of residence in the centre of the village.

But the biggest problem, dating back 50-60 years ago was the experience with New University of Ulster out at Coleraine in Northern Ireland. Amazing site, stunning architecture, some world class courses. And no one would go there from Britain, and most students in Northern Ireland weren’t too keen.

Too remote, too far, not enough happening. Difficult to get to.

Of course, today it’s very successful, but after a rocky start, merger with Magee in Derry, Ulster Polytechnic in Jordanstown and other entities in the early 80’s ( because of low uptake of courses ) to become University of Ulster.

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1 hour ago, John Wright said:

When that was being proposed we didn’t have the money to fund. We’ve now got University College, issuing degrees validated by Chester. And of course the Marine Biological was a constituent part of Liverpool University with a hall of residence in the centre of the village.

But the biggest problem, dating back 50-60 years ago was the experience with New University of Ulster out at Coleraine in Northern Ireland. Amazing site, stunning architecture, some world class courses. And no one would go there from Britain, and most students in Northern Ireland weren’t too keen.

Too remote, too far, not enough happening. Difficult to get to.

Of course, today it’s very successful, but after a rocky start, merger with Magee in Derry, Ulster Polytechnic in Jordanstown and other entities in the early 80’s ( because of low uptake of courses ) to become University of Ulster.

In the late 60's and early 70's I think the troubles would have put a lot of people off too? I remember my mum wasn't too enthusiastic about visiting her in laws, maybe that was an excuse though. 

I think a lot of people would perceive that the IoM is a safe place for their children to be for their first foray away from home?

Yes, University College is a beginning, perhaps it could be expanded on?

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28 minutes ago, Max Power said:

In the late 60's and early 70's I think the troubles would have put a lot of people off too? I remember my mum wasn't too enthusiastic about visiting her in laws, maybe that was an excuse though. 

I think a lot of people would perceive that the IoM is a safe place for their children to be for their first foray away from home?

Yes, University College is a beginning, perhaps it could be expanded on?

Queens was always oversubscribed. NUU they couldn’t  give courses away for free ( actually with grants they were free - but students didn’t want to go there ). Sure the troubles may have had something to do with it, but in the 60’s Coleraine had a population considerably lower than Douglas and closed at 9pm and all day Sunday. There was nothing to do. Douglas actually got an extra hour.

What does what mummy and daddy think is a safe place have to do with where anyone studied, ever ( unless it’s an adverse reaction to them trying to send you somewhere “safe” )

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Not wanting to appear flippant (or disrespectful to the IoM!), but what on earth would be the attraction or point of a university located on the Island?

I can't honestly see any reason why a home-grown Manx student would want to study there - unless they had no choice on grounds of cost or something.  When I went to university I didn't particularly enjoy it at first (in fact I was extremely homesick throughout the first term) but by the end of the first year I couldn't wait to get back to university in the autumn again.  I still live in what is very much a university town and there is no way on earth from a student's point of view that the Isle of Man could compare - it would be no contest.

And I really can't see what the attraction would be for any non-Manx students - unless an IoM university could suddenly become a world leader in an important technology or other significant academic field.  And I'd just add that the opportunity to mix with non-homegrown students is a vital part of university life.  Not just UK students but students from all round the world.

Getting a degree is not the only important reason to go to university, but I don't see what else the Island could offer.  (As John Wright has suggested, the IoM as a "safe" destination in the eyes of parents will count for nothing!)

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