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Manx Mosque Facebook Group


Amadeus
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He did call Islam an infection though....

 

It is a crass term. I wouldn't use the word infection myself but the Islamic faith, as with all religions, could be said to be like a spreading infection of lack of thinking in humans.

 

There is nothing racist about criticising religion and it should be criticised. I do have to wonder why Islam itself is seen to be a problem and not other religions but maybe Rog needs to explain some more.

 

There is nothing wrong with critising religion, personally I have a massive dislike for religion. I think it causes many issues, however it is a basic human right. (Sprituality is where it is all at people, please stop with religion ;)) Though as quoted earlier within in the post, many people were using this facebook group to push there racist bile.

 

I've read what a lot of you say, but I'm not persauded that a dominant religion like islam or others are in the long term interest of our Island.

 

An increasing minority of moslems in the UK seem to have a disproportionate representation. I would not like our Island to have the overwhelming presence of moslems as some towns in the UK. I fear there is more trouble ahead.

 

I like the Island as it is, even though the Manx are a minority, we all seem to get on well.

 

Yeah we seem to get on well, our current population of Muslims seem to fit in well with this. I havent seen or heard any of them causing issues. The idea for a new Mosque is because the current one has been outgrown. So whilst we might have an increasing population of Muslims (partly due to immigration and partly due to people having children or perhaps converstions) if we look at the current information we see some interesting however simple stuff. If there has been a Manx Muslim population for 20 years, they have been growing within in that period, yet they havent caused any issues; then we could assume that this trend is to continue. What is wrong with that, if that is true then it can only be a positive thing.

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Most Europeans are religious ...

 

No they're not.

 

Yes, I think you are right, most hold belief in God, though the majority of those believers are Christians? And they were certainly a majority a century ago and before.

 

Due to your use of grammar, I don't know what this means. I'll hazard a guess though:

 

 

Yes, I think you are right, of course I am.

 

most hold belief in God, Do they? What do you base this on? I hope you're not insinuating that I said that.

though the majority of those believers are Christians? That's a statement with a question mark at the end. How is anybody supposed to interpret that?

And they were certainly a majority a century ago and before. They were what? Religious? So what?

 

Sorry. My grammar is not that great at the best of times but that was a pile of shit.

 

I am basing my recognition of religious belief in Europe on something I read, or rather saw on the internet, but I cannot reference it. My understanding is that most people believe in a God. These figures (below) from Wikipedia would appear to support that. Although it shows a distinction between belief in a god and belief in a spirit, I would have to question what that distinction is as they would appear to be the same. I don't think it determines agnosticism, as I personally doubt

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Europe

 

In terms of what I was saying about Europeans being religious and being more so as you look further back into the past, Graculus makes comments about the Israeli's being little better because of their violence and he does so in reference to their Judaism. But why the connection? European people were almost all Christian some centuries ago and fought many wars and people preached hatred against Germans in WW1 and Russians in the Crimean War.

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Graculus, I don't see the point you are making here. Israelis are Jews and some Jews killed British troops in Palestine, but what does that matter? Most Europeans are religious yet have been killing each other for centuries.

 

You miss the point completely. We live in the 21st Century and yet still there are still people killing each other on religious grounds. Do you think that is acceptable?

 

My reference to the Israeli / Palestine situtation was made purely to reflect some balance in the context that religious hatred and aggression is not confined to a particular side of the religous spectrum.

 

However, I do think that your comment that the fact that the Israelis killed British troops doesn't matter is pretty sick.

 

Ok, saying it doesn't matter was a dodgy choice of words. And of course I think killing is almost always unacceptable, especially if it for religious reasons.

 

What I mean is that is that I do not see the connection you make between the killing of British troops in Palestine (which I assume you mean what happened quite often before the creation of Israel) and the Jewish religion. The British troops were not being killed for any religious reasons, not that I am aware of them anyway.

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I've read what a lot of you say, but I'm not persauded that a dominant religion like islam or others are in the long term interest of our Island.

 

An increasing minority of moslems in the UK seem to have a disproportionate representation. I would not like our Island to have the overwhelming presence of moslems as some towns in the UK. I fear there is more trouble ahead.

 

I like the Island as it is, even though the Manx are a minority, we all seem to get on well.

 

Disproportionate representation? I don't see what you mean.

 

I like the Island as it is, I find that part of the Island have been ruined by the building of ugly housing estates in the outskirts and many towns and villages of the Island.

 

I also think that the 'mixing' or early close and permanent contacts between people of very different culture creates tensions and problems due to the racism and prejudice that both sides will harbour. But there is still no justification to allowing such prejudice to determine where people can or cannot live.

 

Though multi-cultural policies have been not been that successful and ethnic communities are isolated and self-isolating to other communities one has to hope that this completely changes over time.

Edited by La_Dolce_Vita
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Just bear in mind that Islam is the antithesis of Western democracy before you are so willing to allow its infection to further spread across the Island as a result of ignorance of what Islam really is all about, and complacency that ‘things won’t be changed by another mosque yessir’.

 

They will.

 

Thank fuck it's not a synagogue then

 

Why?

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How many 'mainstream' religions are in existence now that preach hatred to other members of the human race that do not happen to subscribe to their particular beliefs?

 

VEY few, certainly not Christians or Jews.

 

Look, Islam is NOT a case of ‘same old same old’ when it comes to religion. It is a cult, look at the insistence of formalized prayers, the ‘holy’ book, the Koran. It’s no Bible, no Torah, it’s a set of verses that must be memorized and constantly referred to everyday life. The very word ‘Koran’ translates into ‘recite’.

 

Even that fails to address that Islam is also an all pervading ideology, one that extends to telling its votaries not only which hand to wipe their backsides with but how many stones to use in the process.

 

Then there is the matter of the believed supremacy of Islam and Mohammedans above all others and the imperative for its followers to take over the whole shebang. There’s so much more to know about Islam, for one thing it is, to the best of my knowledge, the ONLY ‘religion’ that recommends the telling of lies.

 

The religion of peace? That’s the claim and know what? It’s correct. Islam IS ‘The Religion of Peace’ but peace at what cost? It’s the peace that follows the utter subjugation of all opposition and the slaughter of those not willing to toe the line.

 

It’s the peace that sees one sect killing followers of another sect in the name of their so called religion in order to achieve the promotion of their version of Islam or the place of Mohammed’s uncle and the Caliphate.

 

I tell you this, if I were a Christian I could put forward a compelling argument that Mohammed was the anti-Christ, and that the prediction in Revelations of a thousand years the rule of Christ followed by a final conflict with the forces of Satan. It all looks very recognisable in terms of The Crusades, what followed in Europe viz a viz the place of Islam and how it was beaten back, and the upsurge of the foul cult that is taking place today.

 

And let’s not even go into ‘ID cards’ and the mark of the Beast and those who did not bear the mark and all that.

 

Just as well I’m not Christian eh!

 

 

The Muslim faith seems, perhaps, to be at the forefront in that respect. Yet it's interesting that they'll embrace the ideology of the Western infidels, as and when it suits buying, for example, football clubs or spending billions on building resorts in the desert to attract the filthy lucre of the Westerners (whilst exploiting, in a horrendous fashion, other Middle / Far-Eastern races as labourers).

 

The Israelis seem little better and how many people remember that, in their initial display of aggression in the Middle East, they were prepared to kill British troops?

 

It wasn’t an ‘initial display of aggression’, to even write that shows how little you know about the facts surrounding the background events leading up to UN181 or for that matter considering the acts of the Brits with regard to the illegal creation of Jordan how unfair UN181 was.

 

But in any case attacks by the Israeli people in what was intended to be THEIR land on the Brits was understandable and justifiable.

 

Remember, you’re dealing with a population who were watching their homeland, the land promised to them under League of Nations and then UN declarations, being horse traded away by the Brits, as well as the Brits giving / selling ‘intel’ to Arab groups opposed to the creation of ANY Israel and that was resulting in the slaughter of Jewish people. Also events in Europe were turning nasty so increasing the need for the Brits to get the hell out of where they had no right to still be.

 

In any case all this is not, despite the way it is presented and despite the wishes of a minority of Jewish people, purely a ‘religious’ thing.

 

It is very much a geo-political thing as the land, a small portion of which was promised for the Jewish homeland, had initially been stolen from them by Arabs (so resulted in the Diaspora) being horse traded away by a remarkably anti-Semitic British government. Now there are questions surrounding the honesty of the Brits and the Balfour declaration and if it was simply a vehicle to get the Jewish lobby in the US, most of whom were European and substantially of German origin, to back Britain’s attempts to bring the US into WW1 but that’s another story.

 

History may be many things, but uninteresting isn’t one of them.

 

But back to the point . Judaism is not simply a religion.

 

It is also a nationality, for generations we were a nation who had our land stolen from us. Unwanted, feared, and hated we had nowhere to go but Europe, though some went to India and a small number even to China in both places receiving a fare better reception and treatment than in Europe, and it was the Pogroms and rampant anti-Semitism that resulted in the emergence of Zionism.

 

But even that is misunderstood.

 

Zionism is nothing more than the movement to regain a Homeland for our nation. In the event the portion of the Ottoman Empire that had been our national land was decided upon as being the appropriate place for us to have. It was a good choice since it was a land that was our historical national territory as well as being sparsely populated and a part of a whole big shake up as the Ottoman Empire was dismantled.

 

(What some Zionists do is another matter entirely, and one that in some cases is shameful.)

 

But back to the point, look at what was taking place. The Brits decided to engage in typical duplicitous behaviour (Lawrence of Arabia was a classic example of this) as well as mendacious deals trading what was intended to be OUR land for favours including Suez Canal access, support in other regional adventures, and of course oil.

 

The Brits were no friends of the nascent Israeli people, in fact just the opposite. The amazing things is the extent to which the Jewish Office stayed the hand of groups such as The Stern Gang, but they did.

 

I'm making those comments in the context of people acting in a relgious belief as opposed, for example, to finanically / politically induced acts of aggression that have occurred in the recent past.

 

That I understand and that is why I think it’s important to bring in the geo-political components as well as the contemporary social aspects of Jewish people in Europe during the creation of modern day Israel. Also the actions and motivation for those actions by the Brits. It is FAR more than based solely on religion, religion is simply a thing that in the case of Judaism holds us together as a nation and yes, you CAN and DO get secular and even atheist Jews (but don’t tell that to the Orthodox lot!)

 

Taking at look at the World overall, we haven't really progressed very far in 21 centuries. It's just seems that the exploitation of the less well off has shifted on a geographical basis and I wonder how many 'residents' on the Island have played a part in that in recent years?

 

Yes, ditch the mumbo-jumbo but, at the same time, implement a policy recognizing that we all have to live on this planet, we breathe the same air, the water we drink and the fuel that we burn belongs to the human race and not to some selve-serving interests.

 

If ONLY the ‘Palestinians’ and the Mohammedans in general would – or for that matter could – accept this.

 

But they can not. The Koran tells them so and the moment a Mohammedan steps away from the Koran although he’s something, he’s not a Mohammedan.

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If you say anything negative about the Israeli government deliberately bombing children, they accuse you of being antisemitic yet some Jews can abuse every Muslim in the world and then they wonder why there is no peace? The closest Israel got to peace in the Middle East was under Yitzhak Rabin, a good man... assassinated by a Jew, one representing the extremists who are never prepared to accept peace with Muslims.

 

If only we could remove all religion from the planet, how much safer and more peaceful it would be. All religious wars can be summed up as two groups of people fighting over who has the best imaginary friend. Just a shame that the death that results from the imaginary friend is real?

 

Back to the point, I really don't care if a group of people choose to raise their own money to build their own place of worship. As long as they don't get public money (including lottery etc) then fine. The Muslims that I know on the Island are all decent, pleasant people. All the ones that I've met are working in the health services, a service that would fall over without them.

 

Of more concern to me is that the Bishop sits in a position of real power and can influence my life on the basis of his imaginary friend. Even though, by all accounts he is a decent bloke, he shouldn't be there on the basis of his job.

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Thank fuck it's not a synagogue then

 

Why?

 

Perhaps he's assuming everyone who attends it would be an offensive racist like you?

 

I really don't give a hot damm about being called offensive, from some people it comes as a compliment, but racist? That needs explaining.

 

Likie so many I suspect you don't know the meaning of the word.

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If you say anything negative about the Israeli government deliberately bombing children, they accuse you of being antisemitic ---

 

Not anti-Semitic, wrong and wrong in the worst possible way. Unlike the Palest terrorists who DO deliberately bomb civilians the IDF go out of their way to avoid civilian casualties and that is a fact. When last did the Palests give prior warning of a homicide bomber being about to attack?

 

Or that a Katyusha rocket was about to be launched at random into a civilian area?

 

 

--- yet some Jews can abuse every Muslim in the world and then they wonder why there is no peace?

 

Maybe, just MAYBE we know far more about Islam than people in general in the West.

 

The closest Israel got to peace in the Middle East was under Yitzhak Rabin, a good man... assassinated by a Jew, one representing the extremists who are never prepared to accept peace with Muslims.

 

Even that is not straightforward. It wasn’t about peace, it was about land for peace, and the guy who did it was arrested and banged up PDQ.

 

On the subject of killing, I wonder how many realise that for a Palest to see land to a Jew in Israel is a capital offence from the Palestinian Authority even today?

 

 

If only we could remove all religion from the planet, how much safer and more peaceful it would be. All religious wars can be summed up as two groups of people fighting over who has the best imaginary friend. Just a shame that the death that results from the imaginary friend is real?

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

Back to the point, I really don't care if a group of people choose to raise their own money to build their own place of worship. As long as they don't get public money (including lottery etc) then fine. The Muslims that I know on the Island are all decent, pleasant people. All the ones that I've met are working in the health services, a service that would fall over without them.

 

In the case of a mosque you should. A mosque is far more than a place of prayer.

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Just to make note, I am a non-religious person. In fact I'm pretty sure it is the root of all evil. That shouldn't be mixed up with faith, which is a wonderful thing. However religious practice is a very basic human right. So any how, a few things I noticed.

 

It’s the peace that sees one sect killing followers of another sect in the name of their so called religion in order to achieve the promotion of their version of Islam or the place of Mohammed’s uncle and the Caliphate.

 

Which has also occurred in Christianity look at Northern Ireland. It also appears to be something some Jews are attempting to do:

 

But back to the point . Judaism is not simply a religion.

 

It is also a nationality, for generations we were a nation who had our land stolen from us. Unwanted, feared, and hated we had nowhere to go but Europe, though some went to India and a small number even to China in both places receiving a fare better reception and treatment than in Europe, and it was the Pogroms and rampant anti-Semitism that resulted in the emergence of Zionism.

 

Surely you should sympathise with the arrival of Islam to Europe where they are faced by Islamophobia.

 

Just bear in mind that Islam is the antithesis of Western democracy before you are so willing to allow its infection to further spread across the Island as a result of ignorance of what Islam really is all about, and complacency that ‘things won’t be changed by another mosque yessir’.

 

They will.

 

Something I noticed with this if change the variables.

Just bear in mind that Jews are the antithesis of a Greater Germany before you are so willing to allow its infection to further spread across the Reich as a result of ignorance of what Jews are really all about, and complacency that ‘things won’t be changed by another synagogue’.

 

They will.

 

Notice that, be careful what you say if want people to take you seriously.

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Straight way there’s a distortion. The people fighting are NOT Zionist Jews, they’re the Ultra Orthodox and the Ultra Orthodox are NOT immediately Zionist any more than a Zionist is an ultra Orthodox.

 

Fore example I am vehemently Zionist yet there is no way that I could ever be called Ultra Orthodox or any degree of Orthodox for that matter.

 

In fact the fighting shown are Ultra Orthodox objecting in kind to the Israeli government dismantling settlements in line with the once more attempt to reach peace.

 

If you MUST look for YouTube items to support your views then at least look to the sites that DO exist wherein Jewish people, mostly from the US it must be said, argue that there is no NEED for Israel. I guess it’s an easy thing to assume when your ass isn’t on the line.

 

Surely you should sympathise with the arrival of Islam to Europe where they are faced by Islamophobia.

 

No I do not, not for a moment in time. Here’s why.

 

The people displaced in the Diaspora didn’t adopt a ’you change to suite us’ stance, instead they did their level best to integrate in all but religious observation. There was no desire to convert the indigenous population to Judaism, in fact just the opposite. Those people who were victims of the Diaspora adopted a FIFO attitude. We still do.

 

Such is NOT the case with Islam where rather than preserve exclusivity with conversion possible but difficult, the religion demands as an imperative to convert, subjugate, or kill but never to negotiate a permanent co-existence. Note the word permanent.

 

Then there’s the matter of the word ‘Islamophobea’. It’s a good word, much as homophobea is a good word since by the inclusion of ‘phobia’ it at once introduces the concept of being an unreasonable illogical and even silly fear.

 

Clever people, wordsmiths.

 

It’s not Islamophobea, it’s Islam-detestation. No unreasonable fear, no sillyness, simply a loathing of a thing that is loathsome to our evolved 21 century civilisation.

 

A thing that by its own definition is rooted in savage tribal conflict in savage lands of 1300 years ago. A thing that since it can not change – ever – requires that the modern world should be reverted to the standards and codes that existed 1300 years ago and all that entails.

 

 

 

Now your pathetic attempt to paraphrase what I wrote --- YOUR version reads

 

Just bear in mind that Jews are the antithesis of a Greater Germany before you are so willing to allow its infection to further spread across the Reich as a result of ignorance of what Jews are really all about, and complacency that ‘things won’t be changed by another synagogue’.

 

They will.

 

Your utter ignorance of the place that Jewish people (and Slav’s and gypsies and others) had in the overall scheme of things as seen by the Nazis is astonishing.

 

Apart from anything else the Nazis were about breeding out defective genes and so creating once more the Aryan Race, a race that in the Nazi understanding of what it was never existed anyway and they considered that the further a race of people was in terms of physical appetence so the less ‘human’ they were.

 

The term ‘Üntermenshen’ is not simply a term of contempt, it was also a literal description of what they though many races were who didn’t have blue eyes, blond hair, and (in our opinion) small penisis.*

 

Buy hey! Knowing so little about so very much is it really a surprise that your knowledge about Nazi Germany should be any different from anything else?

 

*N.B. Sorry, Amadeus, I know that doesn’t apply to all!

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