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Dave Hedgehog

Another Government Strike Thread

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Angela Moffatt of the Prospect union says the government has made some welcome compromises, but many members still believe they won't get the pension they signed up for.

Oh really. Now where does it say they can't change your T & C's? Oh, it doesn't.

 

If you don't like it then vote with your feet - LEAVE THE SERVICE.

 

Just what planet are these people on?

 

Well I'm not sure they can't change your T & C's without offering adequate recompense, or not leaving you worse off. In the Sunday Times this week, for example in their Business Clinic type column an employer asked if they could reduce his/hers staffs holiday entitlement from 30 to 25 days p.a. (or similar) The specialist employer lawyer contracted by the ST said basically they couldn't ( I know that's the UK but we seem to copy most of their law in these respects)

Whatever you may think (eg civil servants are overpaid) a contract is a contract signed by both parties (I'll work for you, you pay me £X together with pension arrangements) otherwise using your logic the employer could change your T & C's to reduce your salary from say £25,000 per annum to £8.67 per annum, or equally you could say as an employee I am amending the T & C's so I am now to be paid £200,000 p.a.

 

This is the planet we are all on - seems reasonable to me

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Well I'm not sure they can't change your T & C's without offering adequate recompense, or not leaving you worse off.
Which begs the question of the need to complain and strike. If the resulting financial situation is the same, what is the problem? By asking this I don't assume that there isn't one.

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Angela Moffatt of the Prospect union says the government has made some welcome compromises, but many members still believe they won't get the pension they signed up for.

Oh really. Now where does it say they can't change your T & C's? Oh, it doesn't.

 

If you don't like it then vote with your feet - LEAVE THE SERVICE.

 

Just what planet are these people on?

Well I'm not sure they can't change your T & C's without offering adequate recompense, or not leaving you worse off. In the Sunday Times this week, for example in their Business Clinic type column an employer asked if they could reduce his/hers staffs holiday entitlement from 30 to 25 days p.a. (or similar) The specialist employer lawyer contracted by the ST said basically they couldn't ( I know that's the UK but we seem to copy most of their law in these respects)

Whatever you may think (eg civil servants are overpaid) a contract is a contract signed by both parties (I'll work for you, you pay me £X together with pension arrangements) otherwise using your logic the employer could change your T & C's to reduce your salary from say £25,000 per annum to £8.67 per annum, or equally you could say as an employee I am amending the T & C's so I am now to be paid £200,000 p.a.

 

This is the planet we are all on - seems reasonable to me

Variations to the Pension Scheme happens all the time in the private sector.

 

They all seem to to be banging on that AN ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGEOUS FINAL SALARY SCHEME AT A TRULY BLOATED 66% PAYMENT is somehow a "SETTLEMENT" that's a "SUCCESS" for all concerned. I want to see several things including:

 

a) the CS/PS pension "contribution" as a percentage of salary per annum.

b) the "lump sum" they can claim on retirement.

c) how much the Pension Fund is investing and where with the projected return to fund the payments.

d) the projected cost of this "settlement" to Muggins Taxpayer over the next, say, ten years.

 

The key word here is "AFFORDABILITY".

 

So Tony Brown, let's see your projections and how IOM PLC can afford it in the lean years ahead.

 

It's called fucking LEADERSHIP!

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It's called fucking LEADERSHIP!

 

No chance here then.

 

KSF - Rabbits in headlights.

Health Agreement - Rabbits in headlights.

VAT - Rabbits in headlights.

 

The next problem - Rabbits in headlights.

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We have a health budget clearly allocated/itemised in the budget, we have a DoT budget clearly allocated/itemised in the budget etc.

 

I know it could be extrapolated from the budget data, but IMO next year we need to see clearly a cross department 'civil service staff + pension figure', so people can see just what percentage of the previous £600M of expenditure this group truly now represents in the overall budget (including the required and rising annual £100M into their pension pot). Only then will people on the island see just how horrifically high this figure has become as a percentage of overall spend. That information would provide serious backing for many politicians over this pension issue for starters.

 

The true high cost of the civil service is being hidden in the detail of discussions/stories and percentage waffling on departmental cuts, and emotional arguments such as in health and education etc.

 

All that said, I'd still like to know what's going on behind the scenes with corporation tax - anyone hearing any serious rumours?

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I know it could be extrapolated from the budget data, but IMO next year we need to see clearly a cross department 'civil service staff + pension figure', so people can see just what percentage of the previous £600M of expenditure this group truly now represents in the overall budget (including the required and rising annual £100M into their pension pot). Only then will people on the island see just how horrifically high this figure has become as a percentage of overall spend.

Yes but you won't get that.

Look at that meaningless and incomplete release of figures for the MGP.

That information would provide serious backing for many politicians over this pension issue for starters.

 

The true high cost of the civil service is being hidden in the detail of discussions/stories and percentage waffling on departmental cuts, and emotional arguments such as in health and education etc.

 

They lack the strength of willpower to do anything hence the emotive health and education panic stories.

 

80 thousand people - 20 plus local authorites - MHKs, Legco and all the bloated departments.

 

It needs culling but it won't happen.

The feathered nests will remain untouched.

 

It's the taxpayer (and the menials possibly) who will bear the brunt.

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I want to see several things including:

 

c) how much the Pension Fund is investing and where with the projected return to fund the payments.

d) the projected cost of this "settlement" to Muggins Taxpayer over the next, say, ten years.

 

Well you won't ever see that because whilst there is a small pension reserve fund virtually all the scheme is UNFUNDED. As with the UK public sector pension system there is hardly a penny in reserve for these liabilities and its all paid for out of general government revenue - ie, its 'pay as you go'. This is the more worrying factor now that government revenues are down and yet each year the liability to pay pensions out of current revenue increases.

 

Little Miss Moffatt is deluding herself and her members if she thinks that the threat of strike action will stop IOMG doing what they have to do. There would certainly be no public support for any strike as the public themselves 80% of the time are already on a worse deal than any government employee when it comes to pensions.

Edited by oldmanxfella

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There would certainly be no public support for any strike as the public themselves 80% of the time are already on a worse deal than any government employee when it comes to pensions.

 

Agreed. At the moment its a bit like a friend asking you to pay their mortgage for them so that they can continue living in a better house than you. How anybody could think that people in the private sector are that bothered amazes me - they are paying taxes so that other people continue to get a better deal than them.

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So far the only mention of strike has came from Moffat , as quite a few people have stated if the workers go on strike then they don't get paid , you really think that is likely to happen in either the run up to christmas or in January or February when people are generally a bit short after christmas .

As for the general "ah well those fuckers are earning a fortune anyway etc etc" "they're not going to get any sympathy from me" or " no fucker will notice anyway because nobody does anything" .

Firstly not every government worker is on a mega salary and totally worthless , nurses , care workers ? I doubt the main reason that anyone would strike would be to gain public sympathy , its pretty fucking obvious that people will be pissed off when they're sitting in the dark because there is no lecky or they have to wait an eternity in casualty because there are less staff on . As for not noticing well see the previous examples .

To be honest the most likely reason that there is unlikely to be strike action is becasue it wouldn't change anything, the pension change was pushed through even though no fucker wanted the changes anyway , the so called consultations were a joke .Gov: "Do you want these changes ? " Gov Workers: "Er no thanks" Gov "Ah well nevermind we're going to implement them anyway" .

Personally I doubt I'd strike as I couldn't afford to and there would be no point in this particular issue .

As for all the whining about the taxpayer , government workers pay tax too .

Edited by Nosferatu

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As for all the whining about the taxpayer , government workers pay tax too.

Using money raised by taxing the private sector, double bubble...

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All that said, I'd still like to know what's going on behind the scenes with corporation tax - anyone hearing any serious rumours?

 

Nothing apart from this http://www.gov.im/treasury/incometax/ViewN...mp;menuid=11570

 

I have my ear to the ground though!

 

The earliest possible date for any change would be April 2011. We're just too close to the start of the next tax year to make any significant changes - and of course that's when the £140M VAT bite comes in too.

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Sbecasue it wouldn't change anything, the pension change was pushed through even though no fucker wanted the changes anyway , the so called consultations were a joke .Gov: "Do you want these changes ? " Gov Workers: "Er no thanks" Gov "Ah well nevermind we're going to implement them anyway" .

 

I ignored most of your rambling post but couldn't believe the stupidity of that particular bit. IOMG is not doing this to deliberately piss you off, or because it dislikes its own workers. Its doing it because collectively as a government it cannot afford to keep offering you benefits as they are now. The taxpayer cannot afford the liability in the future and that is a fact - it will push up taxes and put a stranglehold on the whole economy if things continue as more and more of the revenue we generate will have to be allocated just to paying out pensions to government workers. Its not as if they are ignoring the consultation feedback - but really if all that feedback said was "we don't want change so get stuffed" IOMG can't simply say "ok then well at least we consulted you" because the fact that the liability could ultimately bankrupt the IoM is not going to go away is it?

 

You seem to be another government employee ignoring the reality that there is no choice in this matter. Things have to change as we as taxpayers cannot afford to keep paying for all this, and your employer, the government, has to do something before the expenditure gets out of control and creates serious financial problems for generations to come.

Edited by oldmanxfella

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