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Dave Hedgehog

Another Government Strike Thread

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CS make up less than 25% of Public Sector workers - so your argument does not apply to the majority that work in the public sector

Certain of those you cite as making "realistic contributions" make higher contributions that get them double the years after 20 years of service which is why police and fire staff can retire after 30 years not 40 like other "public sector" workers. It is a 1/60 scheme not a 1/80 which is what most public sector workers including CS get - so you are comparing "apples and pears' as the same fruit.

You may also care to note I was not against pension reform _ it is needed _ but in part because of the people who historically have been in charge

 

Go back and read what I have posted in this thread. Its not as inflamatory as everyone else - the fact is that nobody understands the issues when it comes to pensions and benefits and yet it does not stop them having an opinion.

 

What you posted was wrong. You said:

 

To cite that Public Sector workers do not pay for their pension is inaccurate.

 

when actually at least 25% of public sector staff do not pay anything towards their pensions at all - and I have shown you where you were incorrect.

 

That's all I said. I'd be unhappy if I was in that situation but as a realist I would accept that things cannot continue as they have been either.

Edited by oldmanxfella

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To take some of your points:

 

 

 

Firstly it would appear that CS/PS pay & bennies have overtaken the private sector. Personally I don't care if it's come about historically or whatever. Times have changed and the CS/PS should change with them, especially their mindset it would seem. I think you will find there are many in the service who also want to change but are stopped by doing so by the politicians as it can make the politician unpopular

 

 

 

Don't get me started on Tynpotwald. A fish rots from the head down so if you don't deal with Tynwald then all you are doing is treating the symptoms

 

 

This is where you are wrong. The private sector has for years been deliberately re-organising to be flatter and broader whereas the public sector have not. I'm quite sure layers could be quickly removed to make it more efficient - and cheaper. My previous comments about the political impediments above apply here too

 

The classic example being the "Care Homes For The Elderly" which are centrally funded. Could they be run by the private sector? I think you will find the majority are run by the private sector and the costs reflect this

 

 

It needs to be professionally looked at. It's far too important to be left up to the butchers, bakers and candlestickmakers that currently hold the reins. I would agree

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CS make up less than 25% of Public Sector workers - so your argument does not apply to the majority that work in the public sector

Certain of those you cite as making "realistic contributions" make higher contributions that get them double the years after 20 years of service which is why police and fire staff can retire after 30 years not 40 like other "public sector" workers. It is a 1/60 scheme not a 1/80 which is what most public sector workers including CS get - so you are comparing "apples and pears' as the same fruit.

The percentages re CS or PS are irrelevant. The thing that matters is the cost. The PS make a contribution towards their pension and despite them being more than 75% of the public sector I wouldn't mind betting that the < 25% CS staff making no contribution at all cost's muggins taxpayer a lot more than the PS folks.

 

Edited to add if they start making the CS pay, say, 6% towards their pension and at the same time recompense them with an extra 6% salary to see them through a "transitional phased approach" I, for one, will be spitting blood...

Edited by P.K.

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CS make up less than 25% of Public Sector workers - so your argument does not apply to the majority that work in the public sector

Certain of those you cite as making "realistic contributions" make higher contributions that get them double the years after 20 years of service which is why police and fire staff can retire after 30 years not 40 like other "public sector" workers. It is a 1/60 scheme not a 1/80 which is what most public sector workers including CS get - so you are comparing "apples and pears' as the same fruit.

The percentages re CS or PS are irrelevant. The thing that matters is the cost. The PS make a contribution towards their pension and despite them being more than 75% of the public sector I wouldn't mind betting that the < 25% CS staff making no contribution at all cost's muggins taxpayer a lot more than the PS folks.

 

Edited to add if they start making the CS pay, say, 6% towards their pension and at the same time recompense them with an extra 6% salary to see them through a "transitional phased approach" I, for one, will be spitting blood...

 

"The percentages re CS or PS are irrelevant" - I disagree. If 75% (PS) are paying something (typically 5 -7.5%) and the remaining 25% (CS) are paying "next to nothing" that is surely better than 100% of the entire Govt workforce paying "next to nothing". At least with a majority paying towards their pensions the Govt is getting something into its coffers to pay out to all those that retire - PS & CS.

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Nice try. The point remains that the CS should pay their way. Currently they're totally leeching off the private sector.

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Nice try. The point remains that the CS should pay their way. Currently they're totally leeching off the private sector.

What a strange remark, doesn't PK realise that CS also pay taxes which fund public services and also use services and buy goods from the private sector which in turn contributes to their salaries and pensions.

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Nice try. The point remains that the CS should pay their way. Currently they're totally leeching off the private sector.

What a strange remark, doesn't PK realise that CS also pay taxes which fund public services and also use services and buy goods from the private sector which in turn contributes to their salaries and pensions.

 

Bloody hell. For the millionth time. We pay your wages so that you pay tax on them. FFS don't dress it up like your doing us a favour by paying tax on the money we pay you.

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Nice try. The point remains that the CS should pay their way. Currently they're totally leeching off the private sector.

What a strange remark, doesn't PK realise that CS also pay taxes which fund public services and also use services and buy goods from the private sector which in turn contributes to their salaries and pensions.

 

Bloody hell. For the millionth time. We pay your wages so that you pay tax on them. FFS don't dress it up like your doing us a favour by paying tax on the money we pay you.

You really should read before you post, but it is getting late. I am not a CS but just trying to understand the situation and make sense of the posts. By the way swearing neither takes the place of reasoned debate nor adds to it.

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Nice try. The point remains that the CS should pay their way. Currently they're totally leeching off the private sector.

What a strange remark, doesn't PK realise that CS also pay taxes which fund public services and also use services and buy goods from the private sector which in turn contributes to their salaries and pensions.

 

Bloody hell. For the millionth time. We pay your wages so that you pay tax on them. FFS don't dress it up like your doing us a favour by paying tax on the money we pay you.

You really should read before you post, but it is getting late. I am not a CS but just trying to understand the situation and make sense of the posts. By the way swearing neither takes the place of reasoned debate nor adds to it.

 

Sorry. Your first post on here failed miserably. Your point was? And is bloody hell really swearing that badly and diminishing debate?

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"Murphy bashing" on an anonymous posting forum, well, tossers can waste as much of their time as they like bad-mouthing Murphy to no avail whatsoever. If his numbers stack up, and they have a horrible way of doing so, then personal attacks are as futile as explaining the global credit crunch to BBB's. If the content hits the spot then the presentation is completely irrelevant, as any fule kno.

 

Except his numbers have never stacked up. He still persists that the FTSE should be at 2,900, even though it is absolutely apparent that the valuation of exchange-traded equities is beyond his skill set. He first claimed that the VAT subsidy was x. The UK government decided that there was a subsidy, but that it was not x, but y. Murphy then changed his tune and said that actually, the UK government had it right, and that it was in fact y, before changing his tune again and saying that the subsidy was still there, to the tune of x-y.

 

The boy is full of shit, and for the most part, even the Labour government know it (do you think his Tobin tax proposals are coming into force any time soon? How about ending the domicile rule (which he laughably describes as "racist")?). It's just screech monkeys like Toynbee who listen, as well as wind-up merchants like P.K. who, despite not living on the Isle of Man, devotes half his free time to trying to make people who do live here more anxious than they already are.

 

It's hard to know who is more bitter and the biggest tosser, P.K. or Richard Murphy, but a stopped watch is right twice a day and Murphy has had his time in the sunshine (P.K. never has and never will, so Murphy's one up on him there). Soon the Tories will be in and the minimal amount of influence that Murphy has will thankfully vanish (no doubt one of the reasons he's so shit scared of the prospect). P.K.'s influence on the world is unlikely to change following the general election, remaining at approximately fuck-all squared.

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How about if we implemented the same cuts as announced toaty in Ireland

 

The pay of public servants will be reduced with effect from 1 January 2010 as follows:

- A reduction of 5 pc on the first €30,000 of salary;

- A reduction of 7.5 pc on the next €40,000 of salary; and

- A reduction of 10 pc on the next €55,000 of salary

- This will include the pay of hospital consultants

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