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HombreTel

Why Is The Iom "independent"?

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Theo - depends on what you want for the Isle of Man though, so I don't think your two specifications of people is at all accurate. If we want the Island to be reduced to little more than a rock where far fewer people make a living from fishing, agriculture, and some industry then assimilation into the UK wouldn't be a problem. But a lot of people want to keep to the status quo as much as possible. Unfortunately, the finance sector is what makes this Island so prosperous and what underpins ability to feed themselves and get a roof over the head. The finance sector will be gone if the Island becomes a country of the UK.

 

So primarily, having our own law (and our 'Independence') benefits only the lawyers of the Isle of Man (and a few of their cohorts too of course).
It benefits more people than that, to different degrees.

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We really would be better off being a county of England. To think otherwise you are either such as:

 

Based on what, exactly? I mean I know I'm obviously ridiculous so maybe I just don't understand the fancy reasoning being employed here, but "we got lotsa lawyers and it's simply dreadful!" doesn't really seem like it cuts the mustard. A life in the UK isn't exactly out of the reach of the average person on the Island, so I fail to see how it would necessarily benefit the individual since, if they wish to make the move, they can already have access to all of the benefits of living in the completely lawyer and regulation free utopia, in which bureaucracy, inefficiency and so on are entirely alien concepts, that is the average UK county.

 

As for the alternative, well, for all our gripes about the political system here, if you think our political system is far removed from and beyond the influence of the average person, try Westminster. We wouldn't have even nearly the status and influence of a county! We'd send what: maybe one MP to Westminster at most? Christ, they could set the Island up as a practice range for bombers and not give a toss about the political implications of upsetting us. Even to your own MP, individually your voice and opinions would be worth roughly twenty times less than it is to an MHK and your fate would be of less interest to him or her than crap on the pavements.

 

And that's just the political side of things. As for the economic side of things, where are the jobs going to come from? What have we, as a pissy little handfull of small towns situated an inconvenient distance from the rest of the UK, which is exactly what the Island would be seen as were we in the UK, got to offer businesses?

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So that is a potted history of why independent.

 

Now to your licencing question. No country accepts the provisional liceneces or pass certificate of another, they recognise and exchange the full licences of the other country. So if you passed your bike test here and have never had a full bike licenece issued here then that is why Spain will not recognise it. If you had had it added to your IOM licence before changing it to the UK there would be nowhere to show where you had passed your bike test and Spain wuld recognise your UK licenece with a bike qualification. Indeed if you had a manx full licence Spain woud swap it as well.

 

In 1973 on EU entry the Islands were offered all out, all in with UK, and Protocol 3. They chose Protocol 3 Not that there was any democratic choice offered.

 

Hello John and thank you for the potted history, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. My licence. I passed my bike test in the IOM and had a full Manx licence with full entitlement to bike and cars. I exchanged this for a UK licence with full entltlement, but against the bike entry was a discreet GBM. The Spansih accept my UK licence for a car but will not do so for the bike. It is rediculous. I've checked and almost all EU countries have no problem with IOM licences and I believe Spain should be the same. I'm gathering evidence to present to the authorities ASAP.

 

 

Only thing I can think of is it happened, your licence transfer, that is, at a time when the categotries were different, maybe cc limits betrween IOM and UK. There is no general provision. But you can gain orv lose categories as you move. My IOM and UK licence, I have both, allow me to dribve up to 7.5 tonnnes. Mt Irish one limits me to 3.5 tonnes

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So that is a potted history of why independent.

 

Now to your licencing question. No country accepts the provisional liceneces or pass certificate of another, they recognise and exchange the full licences of the other country. So if you passed your bike test here and have never had a full bike licenece issued here then that is why Spain will not recognise it. If you had had it added to your IOM licence before changing it to the UK there would be nowhere to show where you had passed your bike test and Spain wuld recognise your UK licenece with a bike qualification. Indeed if you had a manx full licence Spain woud swap it as well.

 

In 1973 on EU entry the Islands were offered all out, all in with UK, and Protocol 3. They chose Protocol 3 Not that there was any democratic choice offered.

 

Hello John and thank you for the potted history, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. My licence. I passed my bike test in the IOM and had a full Manx licence with full entitlement to bike and cars. I exchanged this for a UK licence with full entltlement, but against the bike entry was a discreet GBM. The Spansih accept my UK licence for a car but will not do so for the bike. It is rediculous. I've checked and almost all EU countries have no problem with IOM licences and I believe Spain should be the same. I'm gathering evidence to present to the authorities ASAP.

 

 

Hi HombreTel,

 

My feeling on this is that you are living in a foreign country and if they tell you something then you cannot argue, really. It's rather like the stories we hear of British ex-pats having their properties seized in Spain for obscure and unarguable reasons, for example to make way for

Spanish construction of some sort, or simply to agree to some local's plans for something. Surely it would not be much of a deal to take a motorcycle test in Spain? I lived in France for a time and just accepted this sort of thing as the foreign way.

 

I wish I was living in Spain, though.

 

Good luck to you.

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So that is a potted history of why independent.

 

Now to your licencing question. No country accepts the provisional liceneces or pass certificate of another, they recognise and exchange the full licences of the other country. So if you passed your bike test here and have never had a full bike licenece issued here then that is why Spain will not recognise it. If you had had it added to your IOM licence before changing it to the UK there would be nowhere to show where you had passed your bike test and Spain wuld recognise your UK licenece with a bike qualification. Indeed if you had a manx full licence Spain woud swap it as well.

 

In 1973 on EU entry the Islands were offered all out, all in with UK, and Protocol 3. They chose Protocol 3 Not that there was any democratic choice offered.

 

Hello John and thank you for the potted history, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. My licence. I passed my bike test in the IOM and had a full Manx licence with full entitlement to bike and cars. I exchanged this for a UK licence with full entltlement, but against the bike entry was a discreet GBM. The Spansih accept my UK licence for a car but will not do so for the bike. It is rediculous. I've checked and almost all EU countries have no problem with IOM licences and I believe Spain should be the same. I'm gathering evidence to present to the authorities ASAP.

 

 

Only thing I can think of is it happened, your licence transfer, that is, at a time when the categotries were different, maybe cc limits betrween IOM and UK. There is no general provision. But you can gain orv lose categories as you move. My IOM and UK licence, I have both, allow me to dribve up to 7.5 tonnnes. Mt Irish one limits me to 3.5 tonnes

 

a 'new' isle of man driving licence will limit you to 3.5 tonnes too, this was changed ( not sure when ) along with a motor cyclist with a provisional licence on L plates used to be able to carry a passenger who held a full motorcycle licence, now the same person can't carry a passenger at all. also ( not 100% sure ) it used to be that a full car driving licence also counted as a FULL licence for a 50cc twist and go moped. but now i believe the moped aspect is no longer on the licence. but IF you passed your test when it was it remains there?

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Got it in for lawyers have you?! Interesting viewpoint, but begs the question why you aren't living in that utopia that is the UK?

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If it is me you are talking to the answer is I stay here because I am Manx. My family has been here for many generations.

 

I used to be a very proud Manxman. (almost category B)

 

Have I got it in for lawyers? Yeah probably. There are a couple of 'em sound though. So that's 1 in each 100. Maybe some of the younger one's are ok, I really don't know these days.

 

The bit about Manx Law is worthy of further thought though. We need to keep our own law system to justify our independence, it really is that simple. However, over the past decade or so, some lawyers have been ripping that system and flying pretty close to the wind. It won't take much for the UK (and the rest of the world) to see that there are examples why the Island is "not able to run it's own affairs".

 

That is a crunch point.

 

Thank you LDV and VinnieK for your considered replies, they perhaps were more than my post warranted, but it was not easy to get my point over in a paragraph of an internet forum.

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Thank you LDV and VinnieK for your considered replies, they perhaps were more than my post warranted, but it was not easy to get my point over in a paragraph of an internet forum.

 

Huh? I was being an indignant arsebag ;) LVD pretty much said everything I wanted to, in a more concise and measured way.

 

The bit about Manx Law is worthy of further thought though. We need to keep our own law system to justify our independence, it really is that simple. However, over the past decade or so, some lawyers have been ripping that system and flying pretty close to the wind. It won't take much for the UK (and the rest of the world) to see that there are examples why the Island is "not able to run it's own affairs".

 

I don't disagree with you, though I don't know the details so can't really comment. Even so, I think I'd be more worried about our political system and economy with regards to that issue. It's not hard to make a convincing case that Tynwald does not represent good governance: being wide open to abuse by patronage, and you can point to scandals such as MEA and Mount Murray as examples of the weakness of government and (in the words of one QC) maladministration and a lack of transparency, as well as things like those allegations a while back about police bugging conversations between lawyers and their clients.

 

Not that I think the UK is gunning for us and the Channel Islands, but I think were our economic situation to deteriorate rapidly then the UK government would have a pretty solid opportunity to step in (to "ensure good governance and sound financial management") - all it would really take is one sniff of substantial corruption at a high level to spark it all off.

 

Even if it is very unlikely, it's just yet one more reason why we desperately have to start getting our house into order.

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I think I'd be more worried about our political system and economy with regards to that issue. It's not hard to make a convincing case that Tynwald does not represent good governance: being wide open to abuse by patronage, and you can point to scandals such as MEA and Mount Murray as examples of the weakness of government and (in the words of one QC) maladministration and a lack of transparency, as well as things like those allegations a while back about police bugging conversations between lawyers and their clients.

 

Neatly summing up the biggest problem here, the tossers running the place. Doubtless a rabbit from the hat will be produced just before the next election.

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- all it would really take is one sniff of substantial corruption at a high level to spark it all off.

 

Even if it is very unlikely, it's just yet one more reason why we desperately have to start getting our house into order.

 

Oh dear.....

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