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Are we back to choice of Cannan, Rodan or Robertshaw?

I would prefer Bell to get his act together.

 

Cannan, Rodan or Robertshaw do not have the experience or knowledge required at this moment.

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Or: Tynwald is clearly being abused by some members who are effectively using it as a retirement fund.

In the Report ‘Government Support for the Sefton Group’ there are a number of what might be called core or central propositions which if successfully challenged render the supporting explanations stan

It is self interest, short-sightedness, poor planning, and thinking we still live in the 1950's, that has made Douglas the ever-worsening shit hole it is. People need to stand up against such iss

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None of it will happen of course because nothing ever does

 

Unless the good people of this good Isle get off the couch, march on Tynwald, and make the Honourable ones really shit their pants. As long as Tangi, Eddie and the rest know they get away with it, they will continue with business as usual.

 

So, how does organise a revolution? Is there an H&S leaflet on the use of pitchforks and open flames?

If I were of a mind to organise an anti government protest I would propose the starting grid at the senior TT, guaranteed worldwide press coverageph34r.png

 

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If I were of a mind to organise an anti government protest I would propose the starting grid at the senior TT, guaranteed worldwide press coverageph34r.png

 

So, how does organise a revolution? Is there an H&S leaflet on the use of pitchforks and open flames?

 

 

It'll probably be rained off :lol:

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I think, actually, you are being a bit unfair there. In terms of an understanding of the finance sector and the international affairs surrounding it, and general economics, Bell is streets ahead of the others. You only have to listen to him at his best for that.

Can you give an example? The only time I've heard or read Bell speak it's been abundantly clear that he's reading another person's words, and not always terribly well, and even then there's usually naff all actual content there apart from a liberal and often questionable peppering of grown-up, impressive sounding terms like 'growth' and 'diversification' strung together in a way that consciously, if clumsily, mimics the kind of thing you read or hear in the quality news.

 

Bell's talent, which has and continues to serve him well is that he makes a half decent stab at sounding like he knows what he's talking about, when in reality he's every bit as mediocre as an Earnshaw or a Crookall.

 

People think they've been let down by Bell, but they haven't. Rather they've been let down by their own expectations of the man. These past couple of years form the first time in his political career where he's really had to demonstrate his qualities and talents, and the first time we've had the opportunity to see just how far short they fall from meeting with the impression all the pre-prepared cosy rhetoric he regularly employs creates.

 

The Bell five or six years ago was the same Bell we have now: petty, incompetent, ignorant, and petulant. Rather than a much hoped for economic saviour who has failed to live up to his own potential, he is, always has been, and always will be the Bell of the Mount Murray inquiry, the Bounty project, and the demented ranting about the enemy within. The only thing that truly sets him apart is that he has a gift of the gab that, for some inexplicable reason, continues to have the miraculous ability to wash away his sins and obvious shortcomings.

 

If he and Teare seem head and shoulders above all other MHKs, it's simply because they happen to sit upon the shoulders of the Treasury department and have a regular opportunity to talk at length about economic strategy in a way and with an authority that other MHKs lack due to their relative positions.

 

The sad thing is that we keep falling for the same trick: Gelling, Corkill, Bell, and now Teare. All mediocrities who couldn't think their way out of a paper bag, given public credibility and elevated way above their meagre abilities via a stint kicking their heels in the Treasury whilst the department does all the real work. The only person in recent years who this hasn't worked for is Craine, but then she was set up for a fall.

Edited by VinnieK
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On the matter of a vote of 'No confidence' concerning a minister, there is a precedent.

 

House of Keys April 26th 1994:

 

MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES
AND FORESTRY — MOTION OF NO
CONFIDENCE — DEBATE COMMENCED
The Speaker:
The hon. member for Glenfaba has
caught my eye.
Mr. Gilbey:
Yes, Mr. Speaker, could I raise a point of
order? As all hon. members know, at the end of our Agendas
it says 'Unless the House otherwise determines, the above
business will be considered in the order shown.' I would
like to move that we alter the order today to deal with item
15 now, before item 10. My reasons for this are quite
simple. It is a very important item and the first time in my
experience in 11
1
/
2
years that such an item has come before
this hon. House and I believe it would be most unfortunate
if members were dealing with it right at the end of the day
when they were perhaps tired after other business and when
there might not be proper time to deal with it properly. I
also feel that, in fairness to the hon. member who is the
subject of this motion, it is unfair for him to be sitting here
all day in suspense before it is debated and therefore I
would like to move that we alter the order of business so
that item number 15 is dealt with now before item number
10 and the other items, Mr. Speaker. I beg to move:
That under Standing Order 37(2) the following
motion be taken next.
Mr. Duggan:
Mr. Speaker, I rise to second, sir.
The Speaker:
Thank you, hon. member. Does any hon.
member wish to speak to this motion? If not, I will put the
motion to the House, that the order in which the Agenda is
to be considered be changed in that item 15 be considered
before item 10. Will all those in favour please say aye; to
the contrary say no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it.
Accordingly, in the light of that decision, I call upon the
hon. member for Garff to move what was item number 15.
Dr. Mann:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move:
That this House has no confidence in the Minister
for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry.
I move this resolution after considerable thought and
concern both for the standing of this House but also for
the standing of this Government in and outside this Island
and in the well-being of the agricultural industry of this
Island.
After my return to this House after the bye-election in
October 1990 I served in the Department of Agriculture
for 10 months prior to the last general election in 1991.
During that time I was responsible for the Wildlife Park
under the minister and was aware of the difficulties that
existed and the complaints that had been made concerning
Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry — Motion of No Confidence — Debate Commenced

So, there we have it...
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Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry — Motion of No Confidence — Debate Commenced

 

So, there we have it...

 

Did the debate ever finish? Or even have an outcome....?

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It's something that the civil servants who do know the real score - and who we pay for - are not permitted to actually inform us of what is going on

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If you sack the manager of a shite football team and they still play like shite, what happens then?

 

We had a real chief Minister in Richard Corkill.............was he ever really allowed to manage? Expenses scandals have their uses.

 

If you did find someone with real integrity and leadership and put them in as CM, how long would they be allowed to do their stuff? Please God let their demise not be a sexual scandal...........The image of a toe sucking Manx politician like David Mellor would scar us all.

 

Brown got the job, precisely because he was not a threat to the real power brokers, Bell is the same. Safe pair of hands to do what they are allowed to do.

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If you sack the manager of a shite football team and they still play like shite, what happens then?

 

We had a real chief Minister in Richard Corkill.............was he ever really allowed to manage? Expenses scandals have their uses.

 

If you did find someone with real integrity and leadership and put them in as CM, how long would they be allowed to do their stuff? Please God let their demise not be a sexual scandal...........The image of a toe sucking Manx politician like David Mellor would scar us all.

 

Brown got the job, precisely because he was not a threat to the real power brokers, Bell is the same. Safe pair of hands to do what they are allowed to do.

 

So who do you actually think are the "Real Power Brokers"?

 

The Department CEOs? The Masons? The Lizard people?

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Paul Moulton: "If [economics affairs] say this was not a good idea would you resign over it?"

 

John Shimmin: "What I have always said behind closed doors, and I will say it to you now on air, as far as I'm concerned this is a risk..."

 

http://www.manx.net/tv/mt-tv/watch/54857/shimmin-briefing-the-sefton-2-?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=MTTV

 

 

 

Can't get the video to work myself, which is a bit of a shame. What message is the Minister trying to get across?

 

 

Edited by Donald Trumps
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Paul Moulton: "If [economics affairs] say this was not a good idea would you resign over it?"

 

John Shimmin: "What I have always said behind closed doors, and I will say it to you now on air, as far as I'm concerned this is a risk..."

 

http://www.manx.net/tv/mt-tv/watch/54857/shimmin-briefing-the-sefton-2-?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=MTTV

 

Can't get the video to work myself, which is a bit of a shame. What message is the Minister trying to get across?

If it was getting stuck on the MT advert, try bringing up the video settings. That seems to jumpstart it.

 

Shimmin does say he would resign if the economic affairs committee found the bail out inappropriate, which of course it wont. Other than that it's the usual government spin:

  • We had to do something;
  • People would criticise us whatever we did;
  • Critics are playing politics with this issue;
  • Bailing out the Sefton Group is a 'tough decision', not doing anything would have been 'chickening out'; and
  • There would have been political accountability had the government done nothing and the Sefton Group collapsed.

In other words, the tried and tested 'miffed twelve year old' response to criticism: we had to do something, we did something, and it's just not fair that people are being so mean.

 

The most interesting part was noticing how Shimmin's looking more and more like a sour faced Dame Edna Everage as the years pass

Edited by VinnieK
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Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry — Motion of No Confidence — Debate Commenced

 

So, there we have it...

 

Did the debate ever finish? Or even have an outcome....?

 

How could you have forgotten this vital and earthshattering event in Manx politics? This was the case of Orry the Sea Lion. It went on for weeks and shows that Tynwald really cares about the important issues in the Island such as which zoo a sea mammal goes to, rather than trivialities such as the Mount Murray affair. The House of Keys at its finest (finest what I'm not sure).

 

For those who wish to reawaken those memories the debate takes up pages 5 to 34 inclusive of the Hansard here.

 

The motion of no confidence was lost 7-16.

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