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cheeky boy
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Well, as has already been expressed, there are aspects of the Isle of Man Justice System that would certainly have Robert Mugabe slavering at the mouth in jealousy.

 

Isn't there David....

 

I have a slightly more than passing familiarity with the Isle of Man's justice system and I don't understand this

Well perhaps you should try reporting a crime or two and see if there is any difference between the vigour of your local constabulary and the vigour of a dead sheep.

 

Complex difficult crimes tend to be ignored while simple ones are dealt with in the style of Robocop, heavyhanded would be an understatement.

 

Try complaining a few times and then see how you feel after being stuffed in the back of a van on fictitious/trumped up charges.

 

Just because the persecution is subtle does not mean it is not there, I have been followed by plod far too closely to be an accident, had my stuff nicked been burgled, my associates been arrested on trumped up charges and "odd people" have come into my life inexplicably.

 

Once the mask slips and you see the monster it is hard to forget.

 

The British police are probably the worst in the world bar none with a shite justice system to back them up, your familiarity with the "justice system" probably means you have never seen the mask slip.

 

Try this to test my view. Try setting up a neighbourhood watch scheme and see how co-operative the local plod are or speak to someone who has attempted this. If you are independent minded they will make life difficult..........

Have you missed your medication today ?

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Well, as has already been expressed, there are aspects of the Isle of Man Justice System that would certainly have Robert Mugabe slavering at the mouth in jealousy.

 

Isn't there David....

I have a slightly more than passing familiarity with the Isle of Man's justice system and I don't understand this

Well perhaps you should try reporting a crime or two and see if there is any difference between the vigour of your local constabulary and the vigour of a dead sheep.

 

Complex difficult crimes tend to be ignored while simple ones are dealt with in the style of Robocop, heavyhanded would be an understatement.

 

Try complaining a few times and then see how you feel after being stuffed in the back of a van on fictitious/trumped up charges.

 

Just because the persecution is subtle does not mean it is not there, I have been followed by plod far too closely to be an accident, had my stuff nicked been burgled, my associates been arrested on trumped up charges and "odd people" have come into my life inexplicably.

 

Once the mask slips and you see the monster it is hard to forget.

 

The British police are probably the worst in the world bar none with a shite justice system to back them up, your familiarity with the "justice system" probably means you have never seen the mask slip.

 

Try this to test my view. Try setting up a neighbourhood watch scheme and see how co-operative the local plod are or speak to someone who has attempted this. If you are independent minded they will make life difficult..........

''We've got a right one 'ere Sarge...''

 

How can you say with such an all-encompassing and possibly glib statement that the British legal system is ''shite''? Your experience has left you cynical but if you were to consider the likes of Iran, Pakistan China et al, you might want to reconsider your verdict.

I was once given the treatment you mentioned, by two local CID, (D/S. H and D/C. C), who'd failed in their efforts to pin a crime on me, for which i was innocent. It went through the court and found ''no case to answer''. Afterwhich, I'd leave the house of a morning, or return home from a night out, to find the two of them sat in their un-marked car, in the lane beside my house. They'd even give me a wave just to let ,e know they were there. After a while i lost my rag and confronted them, rather noisily, and eventually made an official complaint, including witnesses, which was upheld and resulted in the two of them being given a rollicking. So my experience tells me the law here is not beyond reproach.

There are bad apples everywhere, give me British policing anytime....

I was simply expressing sympathy with Torry Loon and his experience and views by expanding on my own.

 

If you take Mugabe as the worst regime in the world and compare it with our own dear lovely bobbies on the beat then depending on how you see things you can arrive at differing views with the same evidence.

 

If seeing things differently and having different life experience is challenging to you then good.

 

When you can show me an IOM AG that you would trust an inch then I will retract my view of the current British/IOM legal system as shite and apologise on Manx Forums.

 

The net effect of this Sefton deal is that the taxpayer is being taken for millions and you are defending the system that is doing this as if everything is fine and dandy because in your experience a couple of dodgy coppers got a bollocking.

 

If you went to the police and said I have reason to believe that the Sefton deal is illegal, there is a serious conflict of interest for the AG and it is possibly the equivalent of fraud/insider trading then what do you think would they do?

 

Do you think the acting AG would end up in court like the previous AG?

 

Please try it and let me know what the food is like .........

Edited by GhoulishDoolish
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Anybody remember the SIB, the Savings and Investment Bank?

 

£42m just went walkabout, well wasn't most of the money snaffled out by loans that were never repaid?

 

Justice was frustrated because it was all way too complex and involved the great and the "good".

 

I do not believe the Sefton is anywhere near in the same league as the SIB for crookedness but it is worth remembering that justice can be rather elusive when what you can prove falls short of what you know.

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you cannot involve the Police unless a criminal offence is suspected ! the Sefton deal may be in breach of civil law, maybe some financial statutes , I have no idea, it may also be unwise, unfair, a slap in the face for the taxpayer etc etc but unless it involves a criminal law offence the Police will not be interested. To then suggest the Police are not doing their job is incorrect. Further the AG is nothing to do with the Police merely the senior man in the Manx equivalent of a CPS proceedings are instigated at his behest or that of his office.

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/report-says-manx-politicians-backed-uk-tax-evasion-the-inquiry-into-the-isle-of-man-bank-failure-in-1982-ran-up-against-a-wall-of-silence-over-funny-money-deals-and-revenue-dodgers-writes-tony-faragher-1553157.html

 

Report says Manx politicians backed UK tax evasion: The inquiry into the Isle of Man bank failure in 1982 ran up against a wall of silence over 'funny money' deals and Revenue dodgers, writes Tony Faragher

 

Of course this was a long time ago and the world is a different place now than it was when this took place.

 

It's the 'wall of silence' comment I find interesting in the headline.

 

We shall see in due time what is said to the Economic Policy Committee regarding the Sefton Group and what is not said.

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@asitis and @newsnight

 

...and of course it is further interesting that our current AG was indeed very much involved with the SIB. Very much. As the Government appointed administrator he erm, 'tidied' a few things up. But I think that is for another day, the Island (and anyone else who might be bothered) isn't ready for all that yet.

 

Meanwhile, back to the Sefton:

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I cannot wait for the vigorous grilling that Mr Shimmin will receive at the hands of the Economic Policy Committee

 

Shame that it won't be broadcast live or indeed widely reported in it's entirety

 

Govt censoring the national broadcaster by not providing the resources for them to properly relate political issues

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you cannot involve the Police unless a criminal offence is suspected ! the Sefton deal may be in breach of civil law, maybe some financial statutes , I have no idea, it may also be unwise, unfair, a slap in the face for the taxpayer etc etc but unless it involves a criminal law offence the Police will not be interested. To then suggest the Police are not doing their job is incorrect. Further the AG is nothing to do with the Police merely the senior man in the Manx equivalent of a CPS proceedings are instigated at his behest or that of his office.

If you are averring that over the last 10 years no crimes have been committed in connection with the Sefton Group then I suggest you take your holidays in Disneyland. It will be like a home from home.

 

Corporate raiding is not like being visited by the tooth fairy, perhaps you could ask the smalltime shareholders or the taxpayers who give a shit, where their money went?

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you cannot involve the Police unless a criminal offence is suspected ! the Sefton deal may be in breach of civil law, maybe some financial statutes , I have no idea, it may also be unwise, unfair, a slap in the face for the taxpayer etc etc but unless it involves a criminal law offence the Police will not be interested. To then suggest the Police are not doing their job is incorrect. Further the AG is nothing to do with the Police merely the senior man in the Manx equivalent of a CPS proceedings are instigated at his behest or that of his office.

 

Money Laundering may be issue with the Sefton and its many, many companies that it has set up over the past few years. How many of the top end shareholders have opened up new companies while closing companies down it their shadows and for what reason, to strip good assets, hide cash and create a mountain of paper that the Government and its employees are to thick to sift through.

 

As for the AG, how many pies have his sticky fingers been stuck in.

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you cannot involve the Police unless a criminal offence is suspected ! the Sefton deal may be in breach of civil law, maybe some financial statutes , I have no idea, it may also be unwise, unfair, a slap in the face for the taxpayer etc etc but unless it involves a criminal law offence the Police will not be interested. To then suggest the Police are not doing their job is incorrect. Further the AG is nothing to do with the Police merely the senior man in the Manx equivalent of a CPS proceedings are instigated at his behest or that of his office.

If you are averring that over the last 10 years no crimes have been committed in connection with the Sefton Group then I suggest you take your holidays in Disneyland. It will be like a home from home.

 

Corporate raiding is not like being visited by the tooth fairy, perhaps you could ask the smalltime shareholders or the taxpayers who give a shit, where their money went?

I am not suggesting anything, other than if the suspected misdeeds do not fall under the criminal law or that there is no evidence that they do, then you cannot blame the Police for failing to act and if as you infer others in positions of power are responsible for making sure misdeeds do not come to the fore then also the constabulary cannot be held accountable for that. Believe me I do not need to go to disneyland I am merely stating the position of the Police in terms of law enforcement .

Edited by asitis
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How many of the top end shareholders have opened up new companies while closing companies down their shadows and for whatever reason, to strip good assets, hide cash and create a mountain of paper that the Government and its employees are too thick to sift through.

Thanks JQ7 for a succinct explanation of corporate raiding - ripping off the people with some money by the people with lots of money.

 

Fatboy slim came with a health warning, a siren and a big yellow and black flashing light.

 

See pensions thread on MF in about 15 years time........................."nobody warned me"..........except I did and the evidence is on here now

Edited by GhoulishDoolish
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it's known as vulture capitalism - tho vultures usually wait the the body to be dead - these vultures kill companies that by virtue of some success are ripe to overload borrowing and thus effectively use the company assets to pay for the shares, then via exorbitant fees (to lawyers + others who risk the odd £1M or so) raid the piggy bank leaving the dry shell to the little suckers who thought 'their' company was doing ok - the biggest example so far has been the IoMSPCo as SIB + a few others were just plain crooked.

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