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Or: Tynwald is clearly being abused by some members who are effectively using it as a retirement fund.

In the Report ‘Government Support for the Sefton Group’ there are a number of what might be called core or central propositions which if successfully challenged render the supporting explanations stan

It is self interest, short-sightedness, poor planning, and thinking we still live in the 1950's, that has made Douglas the ever-worsening shit hole it is. People need to stand up against such iss

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Do they have an alternate source of legal advice?

I would have assumed that knowing the position of the Attorney General that entirely separate legal advice was required, I have no idea but would seem to be common sense to me anticipating future questions !

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Do they have an alternate source of legal advice?

Yes, the Government can and do use various firms of advocates, and they have their favoured ones. The Government even use advocates such as who may have advised the MEA that the loans - of which details were kept from the Government themselves - were legal.

 

The legal world. Funny old world innit. Especially in the Isle of Man.

 

Toodly pip.

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Kate Beecroft - The People's Heroine!

 

I heard some of her report and was pleased to hear her open numerous cans of worms, and let some unexpected cats out of bags. However, I suspect that most of those will have been sealed in again overnight.

 

Let's have this information made fully public.

 

I can't access this link to a Manx Radio Listen again beec-leak clip, whereas I can access other links on the site. Strange that.

http://www.manxradio.com/oNews/uploaded/audio/beec-leakMay214543.wma

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Kate Beecroft - The People's Heroine!

 

I heard some of her report and was pleased to hear her open numerous cans of worms, and let some unexpected cats out of bags. However, I suspect that most of those will have been sealed in again overnight.

 

Not mine. I agree she did raise some interesting points but she goes at things like a bull in a china shop. Rather like her party leader. I think if she thought a bit more subtly and strategically she would do a much better job. e.g. last night the motion was a straight forward attack on the council of ministers so it was not going to get anywhere.

 

I would much prefer for her to set down a motion calling for the introduction or restatement of the rules and regulations for the use of certain funds and powers of Ministers to lend funds without Tynwald approval. You could still have got your digs in but it appears you are being proactive and not negative etc and is more likely to get support

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Kate Beecroft - The People's Heroine!

 

I heard some of her report and was pleased to hear her open numerous cans of worms, and let some unexpected cats out of bags. However, I suspect that most of those will have been sealed in again overnight.

 

Not mine. I agree she did raise some interesting points but she goes at things like a bull in a china shop. Rather like her party leader. I think if she thought a bit more subtly and strategically she would do a much better job. e.g. last night the motion was a straight forward attack on the council of ministers so it was not going to get anywhere.

 

I would much prefer for her to set down a motion calling for the introduction or restatement of the rules and regulations for the use of certain funds and powers of Ministers to lend funds without Tynwald approval. You could still have got your digs in but it appears you are being proactive and not negative etc and is more likely to get support

Subtlety in Manx politics, casting pearls before swine

 

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I thought Ms Beecroft & Mr Cannan spoke intelligently & with some passion on the matter

 

Was the CM weeping into his hanky? I think we should be told..

 

 

 

 

What I can't get over is the sheer co-incidence that govt loaned Sefton Group £1.3m in cash, and that the former Co Sec sold shares to the value of £1.3m before accepting the position of Acting Attorney General

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What I can't get over is the sheer co-incidence that govt loaned Sefton Group £1.3m in cash, and that the former Co Sec sold shares to the value of £1.3m before accepting the position of Acting Attorney General

 

If it had been a buy back of own shares the co-incidence might have been worth commeting on. That he presumably sold to a third party makes it less so and the fact that he sold the shares on the Seftron Group and so is unlikey to have benefitted from the effects of the loan makes it even less worthy of mention

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Mrs Beecroft gave Bell, Teare and Shimmin’s excuses for why they gave the Sefton millions of pounds of taxpayer’s money such a careful factual and evidence based battering, at the end of which the many changing excuses they have made for the bail-out of the Sefton lay at their feet like a very old and cheap colander, full of holes and not much use at all. So much for due diligence on the part of the Treasury Minister!

 

Mr Bell predictably did his famous Michael Flatley impersonation while all the while having a frothy hissy fit as fact after fact was hammered into place by Mrs Beecroft.

 

The MHK’s who voted against the motion for the most part had no idea if what she was telling them was good or bad, they simply couldn’t follow it. Mrs Beecroft had so many facts and figures their fears grew in keeping with them.

 

However, instead of thinking for themselves (difficult if not impossible for most of them) they went where the Chief Minister pointed them to. Falling back on the tried and tested knee-jerk reaction they decided to attack the messenger and shout down the message.

 

The essence of it is as I understand it, a small interconnected group of wealthy men who could have financed the Sefton out of their own resources as shareholders of it, didn’t. Instead of which they used the Isle of Man Government as a source of cheap money.

 

Sound familiar? I can’t wait for the Hansard to be published and I’ll bet neither can the UK Press either.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1304723/David-Rowland-Tax-exile-shady-financier--political-liability.html

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The MHK’s who voted against the motion for the most part had no idea if what she was telling them was good or bad, they simply couldn’t follow it. Mrs Beecroft had so many facts and figures their fears grew in keeping with them.

 

However, instead of thinking for themselves (difficult if not impossible for most of them) they went where the Chief Minister pointed them to. Falling back on the tried and tested knee-jerk reaction they decided to attack the messenger and shout down the message

 

This goes back to my original posting about going about thimgs like a bull in a China shop and rather than being subtle and strageic. Her motion was

 

 

"That Tynwald does not approve of the actions of the Council of Ministers in respect of the loans to the Sefton Group and the purchase of the Middlemarch site from the Sefton Group"

 

 

That automatically means the Council of Ministers and members of departments or at least those in relevant departments are going to oppose. You have basically blown your chances before you have even spoken. It is far better to reign back, allow a bit of wiggle room to give yourself a chance of getting a bit more support however much that appears unlikely.

 

Finally I hope that she publishes everything in full on the LVP website or wherever as there are a few suggestions that there were certain matters where she was relying on parliamentary priviledge to get away with. If you are telling the truth I would assume you do not need such protection and it perturbs me if she or any member would make an allegation in Tynwald that they would not repeat outside

 

I agree with you about Bell though, I am getting fed up with his perpetually moaning about the Island been damaged when people do not agree with him rather than putting forward an argument.

 

Two more points, I wish that Beecroft had simply asked why if XY and Z wealthy investors did not appear to think it was worth lending money to the Sefton Group to keep afloat but Govt did as I think that would have got more attention.

 

Finally I like line 452 and 453 in Hansard early publications where Teare states " we have had feedback now that confidence has been restored to the ECONOMY and that this will enable the company to trade more successfully" It is my highlighting but the idea that their action in this one case has resortered confidence in the economy seems to really summarise Teare and Bells own opinion of their self worth

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