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Lao

Nationalist Scribblings

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Seen on two different places, on the walls of park road school and also on the wall in the lane between st Marys and the church behind sam webbs.

 

MANX

NOT

BRITISH

 

has anyone else seen this slogan around and if so please let me know where.

 

and to any nationalist reading this, by resorting to indoctrination of the young and susceptible as the only viable method of propagating your policies, you have weakened the position of nationalism in the public eye that bit further.

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At the risk of opening a can of worms isn't it factually inaccurate. If British refers to someone from the British Isles then surely the Manx, English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish are technically British? I do stand to be corrected on this.

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At the risk of opening a can of worms isn't it factually inaccurate. If British refers to someone from the British Isles then surely the Manx, English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish are technically British? I do stand to be corrected on this.

 

i found this while researching your question.

 

The Isle of Man has had a complicated relationship with the United Kingdom over the years - it is technically neither part of the UK, nor the European Union, but is a Crown Dependency.

 

Manx people, as British citizens, may travel and work freely in the United Kingdom. Passports issued on the Island are marked 'British Islands - Isle of Man', instead of 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland', and these passports are issued to all British citizens resident on the island. source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manx_people

 

If Crown dependency is an accurate term, then Manx nationalists could be considered to be biting the hand that feeds them! perhaps they should just join the BNP.

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Perhaps it's a point of perspective :mellow:

The youth are growing up in a different world where perhaps they're less secure in they're patriotism. That could in turn, lead to a greater need to proclaim their pride :unsure:

Just a thought :blush:

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there is nothing wrong with being proud of where you come from.

 

it is not the "manx" bit that is the problem, its the "not british" caveat that is so important.

 

it creates an impression that being not British is an important part.

 

If nominated for some form of reward or other form of recognition, i would want to be listed as Manx rather than british, as a matter of specificity rather than because of any feeling of disasociation from being British.

 

But regardless of that, it creates "anti-British" sentimient, reading the slogan, it almost feels as though the British goverment is trying to force the Island into accepting the label British, and if we dont we are going to see the war ships in the harbour any day now. it is galvanizing people into a resistance frame of mind, even though there is nothing to resist, and this frame of mind can be taken advantage of by people who are trying to promote a nationalist point of view.

 

also the "Manx not British" statement is a false dichotomy, it makes the reader/listener make a choice between two point which are not mutually exclusive ( i'll cover that in more detail below) when someone see's the phrase, and identifies with being manx, it will force them to choose manx over British, or reinforce any anti-British sentiment they already feel. To better understand the false dichotomy imagine working at a cash till, at the end of the day when you cash up you find your till is £10 short. when you tell you boss that your till is out he tells you that either you are a thief or incompetent.

 

This is a false dichotomy because neither may be true you may well be normally very competant but may has mistaken a £20 for a £10 when cashing up, or someone else, perhaps someone covering you on your lunch break may have stolen the money or made a mistake during transaction. Despite this, a third party overhearing your boss say this would be forced into making a potentially erroneous judgement about you neither of which is particularly flattering. Lazy tabloid reporters have been selling Newspapers by the millions with little more than false dichotomy headlines for years.

 

Also the Manx not British statement is ludicrous because to be one is to be a subset of the other.

 

one may as well argue:

 

"Human but not a great-ape"

 

or " great ape but not a mammal"

Edited by Lao

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A good eloquently and concisely made.

I wasn't sure what your standpoint was after your original post.

I see now exactly what you mean and completely agree. :thumbsup:

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Invoking Godwins Law, I note the Nazis could bestow a special status of Ehrenarier - Honorary Aryan on whoever they saw fit as required in furtherance of their policies and/or aims - economic or otherwise.

 

Perhaps 'Honorary Manx ' status could be used likewise thus removing a point of contention in some cases.

 

I agree. I noticed that there was also a Facebook group which also has some 2,398 people attached to it 'I'm Not British... I AM MANX ♥'

Quite simply, pointless.

 

Facebook Farcebook

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Invoking Godwins Law, I note the Nazis could bestow a special status of Ehrenarier - Honorary Aryan on whoever they saw fit as required in furtherance of their policies and/or aims - economic or otherwise.

 

i didnt know that.

 

It shows just how weak a position nationalism/group elitism is, to cherry pick members from outside their cachement group just to further their policies of hatred. That wouldnt stand up to even the weakest of scrutiny.

Edited by Lao

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At the risk of opening a can of worms isn't it factually inaccurate. If British refers to someone from the British Isles then surely the Manx, English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish are technically British? I do stand to be corrected on this.

 

Don't go confusing the issue with facts!

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My objection is neither Manx nor British, the question isn't worth the bother. It is the assumption that we don't mind being called 'British Citizen'. We are not citizens, we are subjects and as such do what we are told and like it. Betty has the power to make your life a misery, via her government, that is the real issue.

Interestingly the point is being made with paint, not Manx, put on by brushes, not Manx either, onto walls made of Non-Manx bricks. Kind of negates the whole independence argument right there.

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Interestingly the point is being made with paint, not Manx, put on by brushes, not Manx either, onto walls made of Non-Manx bricks. Kind of negates the whole independence argument right there.

 

If my trainers are made in Vietnam does that make me Vietnamese?

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Perhaps it's a point of perspective :mellow:

The youth are growing up in a different world where perhaps they're less secure in they're patriotism. That could in turn, lead to a greater need to proclaim their pride :unsure:

Just a thought :blush:

A need? Why the need? Such people might be secure about their identity and their relationship with others in more mature and intelligent ways.

 

But regardless of that, it creates "anti-British" sentimient, reading the slogan, it almost feels as though the British goverment is trying to force the Island into accepting the label British, and if we dont we are going to see the war ships in the harbour any day now. it is galvanizing people into a resistance frame of mind, even though there is nothing to resist, and this frame of mind can be taken advantage of by people who are trying to promote a nationalist point of view.
Though this is very much your OWN interpretation of these scribblings and how you feel about them. Though I do agree with what you say about a false dichotomy, if this is taken as a statement scribbled for political propaganda purposes.

 

Is there anything wrong with anti-British sentiment? Yes you have fact that the Island is a crown dependency and that we are within the British Isles, but the term British is more than just a description of one's place of birth and designation by the State but is very much an identity that LARGELY developed throughout the nineteenth century.

This identity has been one that has never been embraced by a large number of people in the British Isles because of its meaning.

Edited by La_Dolce_Vita

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My objection is neither Manx nor British, the question isn't worth the bother. It is the assumption that we don't mind being called 'British Citizen'. We are not citizens, we are subjects and as such do what we are told and like it. Betty has the power to make your life a misery, via her government, that is the real issue.

Interestingly the point is being made with paint, not Manx, put on by brushes, not Manx either, onto walls made of Non-Manx bricks. Kind of negates the whole independence argument right there.

 

going to have to disagree with you there pat, the points you have made have little to do with the issues at hand.

 

The term British subject is meaningless now, and is only in use for people born within the sovreignity of the British crown born prior to 1949. The term subject was replaced with citizen in 1949, but even that is beside the point because Britain is a constitution monarchy not an absolute monarchy, and "betty" has very little ability to affect your day to day life.

 

Also what has the bricks, paint or brushes place of origin got to do with a bunch of manx nationalists daydreaming about independence from crown dependancy, or complaining about the amount of polish/irish on the Island? nothing.

 

I have never heard nationalist complaining about using products from other countries, they just dont want people coming here, but if they do intend to get rid of all things non manx, i look forward to slap stick videos of manx nationals chasing the colony of wallabys around the hills hopefully accompanied by some benny hill theme music.

Edited by Lao

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Though this is very much your OWN interpretation of these scribblings and how you feel about them.

 

Actually no this is not my own interpretation of the scribblings, because i see right through the obvious false dichotomy, i see scribblings such as these on par with the pathetic cry of "it's not fair" you hear from someone who just got their ass kicked by life.

 

the statement you are refering to quoted again below is a description of my interpretation of the opinion of someone who actually falls for the false dichotomy and feels that they must make a choice between manx or british,to give you an idea how i came to this opinion, i have 4 facebook friends who have joined the group linked in this thread.

 

hope that better clarifies my position.

 

But regardless of that, it creates "anti-British" sentimient, reading the slogan, it almost feels as though the British goverment is trying to force the Island into accepting the label British, and if we dont we are going to see the war ships in the harbour any day now. it is galvanizing people into a resistance frame of mind, even though there is nothing to resist, and this frame of mind can be taken advantage of by people who are trying to promote a nationalist point of view.
Edited by Lao

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