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Nationalist Scribblings

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Interestingly the point is being made with paint, not Manx, put on by brushes, not Manx either, onto walls made of Non-Manx bricks. Kind of negates the whole independence argument right there.

 

If my trainers are made in Vietnam does that make me Vietnamese?

 

ah but where were the tools made that were used to make said trainers ?

 

damn mixed race trainers, they're neither one type or the other, neither side will ever accept them, might as well never have been made.

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Actually no this is not my own interpretation of the scribblings, because i see right through the obvious false dichotomy, i see scribblings such as these on par with the pathetic cry of "it's not fair" you hear from someone who just got their ass kicked by life.

 

the statement you are refering to quoted again below is a description of my interpretation of the opinion of someone who actually falls for the false dichotomy and feels that they must make a choice between manx or british,to give you an idea how i came to this opinion, i have 4 facebook friends who have joined the group linked in this thread.

 

hope that better clarifies my position.

I was referring to the comment about how it creates anti-British sentiment and assumptions on what the British government is up to. I believe that although you feel it and you know of others who share that feeling it isn't a necessary understanding of the scribblings.

I wasn't referring to the false dichotomy. But on this subject, it is a matter of what you understand British (and Manx) to mean as to whether it is a false dichotomy or not. And this is the whole point, it isn't some exercise in discovering truths but one of fostering a particular outlook on nationalism.

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We are not citizens, we are subjects

 

We are human resources.

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Actually no this is not my own interpretation of the scribblings, because i see right through the obvious false dichotomy, i see scribblings such as these on par with the pathetic cry of "it's not fair" you hear from someone who just got their ass kicked by life.

 

the statement you are refering to quoted again below is a description of my interpretation of the opinion of someone who actually falls for the false dichotomy and feels that they must make a choice between manx or british,to give you an idea how i came to this opinion, i have 4 facebook friends who have joined the group linked in this thread.

 

hope that better clarifies my position.

. I believe that although you feel it and you know of others who share that feeling it isn't a necessary understanding of the scribblings.

 

 

i do not feel anti british sentiment nor share that feeling with others, i have however watched people fall victim to the false dichotomy of "manx not British" and they themselves have voiced anti british sentiments as a direct result of reading that slogan. I however do not share in the sentiment. The fact that people are falling for this slogan in this particular way has been directly observed by me so, its not an opinion. Im sure that there could be other ways to interpret the slogan, but i am only making comment on the way in which i have directly observed.

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I am "as Manx as the hills" but I am also British. I see no conflict in being both and frankly do not see the point of proclaiming "Manx not British" - what a nonsense!

 

We may all have what might be described as an Ethnic Nationality but that counts for nothing on the international stage - it's your Legal Nationality that counts there. So, like it or not, if you're Manx you're also British (unless, of course, you've revoked your British Nationality and adopted a new one).

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I am "as Manx as the hills" but I am also British. I see no conflict in being both and frankly do not see the point of proclaiming "Manx not British" - what a nonsense!

 

We may all have what might be described as an Ethnic Nationality but that counts for nothing on the international stage - it's your Legal Nationality that counts there. So, like it or not, if you're Manx you're also British (unless, of course, you've revoked your British Nationality and adopted a new one).

 

I would really hate to have to agree with evil goblin on something, fortunately i dont have to as he is just plagarising what i have already said. thus he agrees with me.

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Interestingly the point is being made with paint, not Manx, put on by brushes, not Manx either, onto walls made of Non-Manx bricks. Kind of negates the whole independence argument right there.

 

If my trainers are made in Vietnam does that make me Vietnamese?

 

no, it makes you a twat. :D

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Interestingly the point is being made with paint, not Manx, put on by brushes, not Manx either, onto walls made of Non-Manx bricks. Kind of negates the whole independence argument right there.

 

If my trainers are made in Vietnam does that make me Vietnamese?

 

no, it makes you a twat. :D

 

Is there any need for that?

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I would really hate to have to agree with evil goblin on something, fortunately i dont have to as he is just plagarising what i have already said. thus he agrees with me.

:lol::lol:

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Perhaps people are over-intellectualising here. It's a scrawlled piece of grafitti not a dissertation on the constitution.

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i do not feel anti british sentiment nor share that feeling with others, i have however watched people fall victim to the false dichotomy of "manx not British" and they themselves have voiced anti british sentiments as a direct result of reading that slogan. I however do not share in the sentiment. The fact that people are falling for this slogan in this particular way has been directly observed by me so, its not an opinion. Im sure that there could be other ways to interpret the slogan, but i am only making comment on the way in which i have directly observed.

I think we are misunderstanding what we both mean. I didn't mean that you have anti-British sentiment.

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I am "as Manx as the hills" but I am also British. I see no conflict in being both and frankly do not see the point of proclaiming "Manx not British" - what a nonsense!

 

We may all have what might be described as an Ethnic Nationality but that counts for nothing on the international stage - it's your Legal Nationality that counts there. So, like it or not, if you're Manx you're also British (unless, of course, you've revoked your British Nationality and adopted a new one).

 

I would really hate to have to agree with evil goblin on something, fortunately i dont have to as he is just plagarising what i have already said. thus he agrees with me.

But this is talk of the legal designation and ethnic background of people. Manx people are undoubtedly British if we talk about the constitutional situation, e.g. what's on your passport. And it can also be said to be so in terms of cultural links.

But being British is a nationality built up upon values and identification as part of the English club. That's what being British has always hinged upon. I don't believe it is really an identity and nationality that has changed much in terms of what defined it, but it certainly one that is on the wane. The members of the non-English members of the club have all tried to re-define themselves and now the English wish to do the same. It isn't simply about living in the British Isles.

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Lets get real. Manx and Proud. What is wrong with you all. I fully support the slogans.

 

This is not indoctrination, the Island has never been British in the political sense, always separate. It may be British if we think in the geographical sense, but that term, British Isles is controversial, imperialistic, and maybe about to disappear.

 

These things are not cast in stone, concepts of National Identity change with time, politics, wars and events. Look at the copming together of Italy and Germany in the last century. Independence for Finland and Norway (did they remain or were they ever Russians or Swedes?) the new post WW1 states and the disappearance of some after WW2 and their subsequent reappearance (were they ever Austro Hungarian, or Ottoman or German or did they become German or Russian or Yugoslavs or did they stay Polish, Belarussion, Uktranian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian or Serbs, Slovenes, Croats, Macedons, Bosnians? etc)

 

Facts: Mann was an ancient inependent kingdom, it came under suzerainty of Norway, Scotland and England in the 12th and 13th and 14th centuries. It was never incorporated into England. That did not make the Manx English, although it was a state which existed until 1705. British as a concept did not exist. Nor in 1603 did the acccessiion of James V1 make the English Scots or vice versa. In 1705 those two sepaparate kingdome joined in political union to become Great Britain, it did not stop the Scots being Scots etc. There were no such things as passports issued by the GB authorities to its citizens, if you travelled abroad you would still have been Scots or English and you might have got a pass requesting that you be allowed to pass without let or hindrance from the authorities in the country you were visiting.

 

The next change came in 1805 when Ireland, another independent country, but sharing a monarch in the personal sense, joined with GB to become the UK and at the same time Empire started to grow. UK passports started to be issued in late 19th century UK. British nationality was never fully defined until 1948.

 

Britishness is an imperial 19th century concept and an artificial construct. The Republic of Ireland left the Union in 1921, they are Irish they object to the description British Isles or Islands being used geographically to refer to their Island. If the Irsh ever became a subset of British that came to an end.

 

The real position, linguistaically and politically is that British is a descriptive artificial and temporally limited top set used to generically embrace English, Welsh, Scots, historically Irish (but not now). They share or did share membership of a common political entity to which we never belonged.

 

So the kids are right we are Manx, not British, buit because we have not taken full independence we share a nationality and citizenship by way of passport and Nationality Act, but only for the time being.

 

Remember that the UK, British, authorities themselves are quite good at denying British persons with British passports the same rights as white anglo saxons, look at what happened to UK passport holoders in East Africa, the Carribean and Hong Kong.

 

Manx Nationalisnm, the desire and will for a national unity and independence is not akin to Nazism. It is indeed correct that Nazism included National in its name (not nationalism, but it also included socialist in its name. It was its policies, not espoused by modern day Manx Nationalists as far as I can tell, that made it evil, and it has tainted the concept of nationalismn for too long

 

The real question, and it is a burning one, is who are the Manx and where do we go from here.

 

In Scotland and Ireland Tesco's and other big stores did not fly the English flag at world cup and bedeck their stores with the St Georges flag (Englands flag, not the British flag, the flag of a Greek man) nor did they exclusively sell England merchandise, they stocked kit for many countries and probably got te beter deal interms of period of sales. England Mars bars were not on sale. We in the IOMK had to suffer the full idignity of all those things and the countless cars flying England flags and houses draped in England flags, Is it any surpriase we have a backlash at present

 

The surprise should be that it is so small and low key

 

Look at Tynwald day

 

The Band of the Royal Marines,

RAF flypasts,

The Lieutenant Governor,

One and a half renditions of God Save the Queen,

The "ROYAL" Chapel,

Last Post at the War Memorial

Dignitaries in West Brit Regalia

 

What is Manx rather than neo colonial about that?

 

NB I am not a Manx Nationalist nor a member of Mec Vannin or the new support group. I disagree with too many of their economic and political platform. But I live here and I am proud to think of myself as Manx.

 

Oh, and as for passports, if we became independent and asjked another country to adminsiter our passports and deal with diplomatic representation abraid etc, that would not give to us the identity of the nationals of that country, it would be seen for what it is, a convenient economic relationship

 

And finally you don't have to hate the Brits or the Englsih to be Manx and proud or to say Manx not Brit

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The position of these slogans is crucial.

 

Very close to Sam Webbs which as we all know, is a veritable hotbed of fevered political debate and policy making; sending shockwaves out across the Manx Political Landscape and causing even the mighty to tremble.

 

Last time I passed the school they seemed more interested in shouting at me to throw their ball back ( very polite they were too ) - Sadly, I didn't hear any stern exhortations on Nationalist issues.

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I fully support the slogans.

 

Then you are an idiot.

 

if those slogans were legitimate political statements, they would be done on a manifesto and posted through your door, not scrawled on the wall of schools in an act of vandalism.

 

if the isle of man was going through some sort of identity crisis, perhaps there would be some grounds for a "manx not english" campaign, but that would still have to be done in a legitimate fashion.

 

Another problem is the placement of these slogans, all three that i have seen are on the walls of schools. this is no accident, it is an attempt to sway the easily influenced.

 

If a set of political ideals has any merit, people should come to be convinced of this through discourse and debate, not by being tricked by weak logical fallacies.

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