WTF 5,946 Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 not many faces to add to the 'pick on' list up at HQ then?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spook 1,340 Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Even when there is absolute proof of wrongdoing the way to deal with that is not to use a discussion form, especially so when one is just a forum member. Yes, but what if one is a really really important forum member ? Then all the more reason not to do so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spook 1,340 Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 But I don't quite agree with you. If someone is absolutely sure of the wrongdoing of someone in a position of trust then for THEM it matters not when it comes to consideration of accompanying it with evidence when it comes to informing others. It is still only a matter of concern for the person to whom the claim has been made. But to drag other people into the fray is wrong, especially when those other people stand a chance of loss because of being dragged in and especially when they are innocent bystanders who candidly couldn’t care much less about a thing or who are satisfied that due process has been followed and are content with that due process. Also when they believe that in an imperfect world some degree of imperfection is inevitable but it is at an acceptable level when the overall service being provided is good, IF there is proof of wrongdoing by a person who is undertaking a public role or a position of trust then should have LESS not more consideration when it comes to the proliferation of such information. By doing wrong in a public role they have already subverted the very system they are part of and it would be proper to expose them by whatever means. There are ways and means and due process. If those ways and means and due process are inadequate or have been abused by “the other side” then for an individual to do what he wants and face the potential consequences of his actions is one thing. To drag others in who have no way to legally disassociate themselves from such actions is WRONG. A forum is after all not a “wall newspaper”. Let me put it simply. If someone feels they’ve had a bad deal then let them put their cock on the block, not mine along side it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
- Paul - 3 Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Why was the refutation by the individual at whom the allegation was directed subsequently removed? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spook 1,340 Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Why was the refutation by the individual at whom the allegation was directed subsequently removed? Immaterial. The damage has been done. This should go to law if for no other reason than the principle of establishing caesar's wife's status and getting it restored for the injured party. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
- Paul - 3 Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Immaterial in your opinion. Leaving it up might and I say might, have ameliorated the situation to some small degree. However I agree the damage has been done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Wright 7,966 Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 The report button exists for reporting. MF is not in the business of deciding who is right and or wrong. The offending and reporting post were both set invisible rather than have legal matters played out in public gaze. That meets the obligation of MF under s10 Electronic Communications Act 2000 and s8 Law Reform Act 1997 to protect itself. The reporting post could in theory be a problem itself by in terms or directly accusing the original poster of lying. I am not suggesting it was in this case. MF is not a newspapaer and the practice and etiquette of running a forum or bulletin board, and the responsibilities may well be different What concerns me personlly is that the DCC has admitted to lurking or monitoring, keeping an eye on what is posted. No one, not on here or IOM Newspapers has seen fit to comment. I think that is worthy of comment I also think it is worthy of comment that IOM Newspapers did not seek the views of MF before having a dig. Thye are a commercial concern and the legal rule about responsibility by pre moderation or editing is different for them than for MF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spook 1,340 Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Why? Is it not right and proper that the police and security services should keep tabs on such places as this? Did you ever think anything other than that would be the case? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
La_Dolce_Vita 750 Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 If those ways and means and due process are inadequate or have been abused by “the other side” then for an individual to do what he wants and face the potential consequences of his actions is one thing. To drag others in who have no way to legally disassociate themselves from such actions is WRONG. A forum is after all not a “wall newspaper”. Let me put it simply. If someone feels they’ve had a bad deal then let them put their cock on the block, not mine along side it. If you're talking about a forums where it might have some potential for being closed for keeping such claims online then I would agree. I don't have much knowledge of the law. But common sense to me would seem to dictate that the person making a claim is at fault if they commit libel, not the place where it was made, but those who provide such a place need also to remove it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
La_Dolce_Vita 750 Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Why? Is it not right and proper that the police and security services should keep tabs on such places as this? Did you ever think anything other than that would be the case? Why do you think it is right and proper? I must be naive, I presume in this case that it demonstrates nothing other than the site being used in the person's spare time. Not being monitored as part of some police task, however. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Goblin 105 Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Why? Is it not right and proper that the police and security services should keep tabs on such places as this? Did you ever think anything other than that would be the case? I take it then, Spook, that you would agree that PC Plod should monitor all communications between people, just in case anything seditious appears? If so, then combined with your delusional religious beliefs, you truly are a nutter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
La_Dolce_Vita 750 Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 (edited) I can understand why such perspectives (as Spook's) are formed. I mean, the current trend of the UK government (and others to a lesser extend) in the West is for the State to increasingly stick it nose into the affairs of the public on the very poor excuse of fighting terrorism and crime. Quite unfortunate that unless the State's instrusive is pushed back and resisted future generations will grow up to think that monitoring of communications, CCTV everywhere, terrorism laws, etc are the norm and are acceptable. Edited October 3, 2010 by La_Dolce_Vita Quote Link to post Share on other sites
- Paul - 3 Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 The report button exists for reporting. MF is not in the business of deciding who is right and or wrong. The offending and reporting post were both set invisible rather than have legal matters played out in public gaze. That meets the obligation of MF under s10 Electronic Communications Act 2000 and s8 Law Reform Act 1997 to protect itself. The reporting post could in theory be a problem itself by in terms or directly accusing the original poster of lying. I am not suggesting it was in this case. MF is not a newspapaer and the practice and etiquette of running a forum or bulletin board, and the responsibilities may well be different Thanks for that explanation John As regards What concerns me personlly is that the DCC has admitted to lurking or monitoring, keeping an eye on what is posted. No one, not on here or IOM Newspapers has seen fit to comment. I think that is worthy of comment I also think it is worthy of comment that IOM Newspapers did not seek the views of MF before having a dig. Thye are a commercial concern and the legal rule about responsibility by pre moderation or editing is different for them than for MF Was it not mentioned some time ago in respect of a completely different matter not involving MF that IOM police 'monitor' or 'keep an eye' on websites. If I'm not mistaken, perhaps someone can recall the specifics. As regards this incident, as the forum is open to the casual visitor to read most of the content, possibly word of mouth came into play? (only speculating here) Having said that, if police do monitor websites as a matter of course then possibly questions might be asked on what basis and what cost and resorce implications arise. As regards the commercial local media - what else can we honestly expect? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Declan 7,203 Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 I take it then, Spook, that you would agree that PC Plod should monitor all communications between people, just in case anything seditious appears? If so, then combined with your delusional religious beliefs, you truly are a nutter. This isn't "all communication between people" though. It's a public forum, comments here available to all and sundry to read (or monitor if your paranoid). We already knew the police read this forum, Derek Flint has posted many times and received a very rough ride (unfairly in my opinion); police have also urged caution after Pam Ayers's speculative comments regarding the death on a boat in Ramsey. My take on this is that the forums discuss Manx society, the police are part of society and not the stasi. Why shouldn't individual officers read and contribute if they want? If we build a wall between them and the populace then we really are in trouble. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
La_Dolce_Vita 750 Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 You have a very different idea of what they are than I do. Yes, they are a part of society but not the public community. They do function intervene in it, but they are fundamentally something separate and alien. The same as all State organisations and institutions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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