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Giving Presents To Teachers


Theodolite
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Nooo SJR, that's not what we were discussing was it? You said all the contributions made throughout a working lifetime wouldn't get them to normal retirement age and I pointed out that you could only get that slanted viewpoint to even start to look feasible if you conveniently forgot about compound interest over a 35 year period. *That* was the point I was talking about now you just moved the goalposts to surviving until maybe 90! Make you're mind up what you're on about :)

 

 

Edited to say looks like it Dan. It's a real mystery why recruitment is an issue given the 'fantasic' rewards for such a doddle of a job. Perhaps it's because equivalent qualified and experienced employees in the private sector in their mid 50s are on about £85k instead of £35k. Who knows? there's got to be a reason!

Edited by ballaughbiker
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There seems to be an awful lot of jealousy over teachers in this thread...

 

And why not? Massive holidays, brilliant pensions, most out the door at 50 due to "stress", and plenty of spare time to pursue useless religions that annoy people on their own doorsteps. That said its more an argument now about government workers sucking more and more money out of the economy. Teachers do at least provide a service and value for money in most cases. Some other government workers are just a total fucking drain on the taxpayer. SJR is about right on the deficit here - its now been reported at about £1.2bn that the taxpayer has to meet over the next 50 years or so to pay the pensions bill for government employees. I'll repeat that - £1.2bn - pounds Sterling. They are paying in nothing in comparison to what they are taking out when they retire. Absolutely nothing. All the debts are being sunk into the next generations here and there will be a time when the money runs out. If we look back to the late 70's here the budget reserve fund was around £1m, that is to say that we only had £1m tucked away in cash for a rainy day. Now 30 years later we have an unpaid inter generational debt of £1.2bn. How did that happen? If we carry forward our debts as they are already accruing the Island is going to have to be generating huge budget surpluses and have massive reserves 10 years from now to even service the interest payments on what falls due. Its a total mess, but like the VAT shortfall nobody here wants to deal with the problem until it blows up in their face and fires shit into the stratosphere! Like everything this government does, they think they will find some fiddle that means that the UK taxpayer picks up the bill so they won't have to do anything.

Edited by thesultanofsheight
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There seems to be an awful lot of jealousy over teachers in this thread...

Who is jealous of being a teacher ? Who can blame anyone for wanting those terms and conditions..The point is things have to change and in the Public Sector that includes ALL workers.This Island and indeed the UK is facing a crisis..

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Er assuming there is a pot, doesn't your employer put some in as well as your contributions?

 

I still can't get my head around that compound interest on a yearly increasing figure over 35 years you've illustrated. I'll try again tomorrow when my head might be clearer.

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Nooo SJR, that's not what we were discussing was it? You said all the contributions made throughout a working lifetime wouldn't get them to normal retirement age and I pointed out that you could only get that slanted viewpoint to even start to look feasible if you conveniently forgot about compound interest over a 35 year period. *That* was the point I was talking about now you just moved the goalposts to surviving until maybe 90! Make you're mind up what you're on about :)

 

 

Edited to say looks like it Dan. It's a real mystery why recruitment is an issue given the 'fantasic' rewards for such a doddle of a job. Perhaps it's because equivalent qualified and experienced employees in the private sector in their mid 50s are on about £85k instead of £35k. Who knows? there's got to be a reason!

Jesus what are they selling in the Raven ? "Equivalent qualified and experienced employees..private sector...£85k."You are telling me that an average individual with grade C GSCE in Science/Maths/English and two A levels (has anyone ever failed an "A" level ?) and three years spent pissing against a wall at a former Polytechnic is on £1600 a week in the private sector ! I cannot believe that I am getting drawn into this !!

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Edited to say looks like it Dan. It's a real mystery why recruitment is an issue given the 'fantasic' rewards for such a doddle of a job. Perhaps it's because equivalent qualified and experienced employees in the private sector in their mid 50s are on about £85k instead of £35k. Who knows? there's got to be a reason!

 

The Manx financial sector is not that high paying - £85k? If you are a well qualified accountant or lawyer yes. But not for someone who has done a few years at Uni and got no specialist commercial skills. Your well out there - its more like £45k tops - which if you assume that a good government final salary pension scheme is worth about an extra 25% of salary it is no different whatsoever.

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Er assuming there is a pot, doesn't your employer put some in as well as your contributions?

 

I still can't get my head around that compound interest on a yearly increasing figure over 35 years you've illustrated. I'll try again tomorrow when my head might be clearer.

Now we are getting there - 14% government contribution ! That makes the average..wage..er.. 14% more already without the 8 weeks extra holiday.And drop the compound interest because the pension is ..index-linked.! The fact that the Government (the taxpayer) has already spent this sum means that with far larger teacher numbers/classroom assistants/extra ancillary workers/"extra time to prepare and mark" means that Public Sector wise the man on the Ballaugh Omnibus will very shortly "not have a pot to piss in" Was that a jealous rant..no I couldn't take the salary drop...

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There seems to be an awful lot of jealousy over teachers in this thread...

 

And why not? Massive holidays, brilliant pensions, most out the door at 50 due to "stress", and plenty of spare time to pursue useless religions that annoy people on their own doorsteps. That said its more an argument now about government workers sucking more and more money out of the economy. Teachers do at least provide a service and value for money in most cases. Some other government workers are just a total fucking drain on the taxpayer. SJR is about right on the deficit here - its now been reported at about £1.2bn that the taxpayer has to meet over the next 50 years or so to pay the pensions bill for government employees. I'll repeat that - £1.2bn - pounds Sterling. They are paying in nothing in comparison to what they are taking out when they retire. Absolutely nothing. All the debts are being sunk into the next generations here and there will be a time when the money runs out. If we look back to the late 70's here the budget reserve fund was around £1m, that is to say that we only had £1m tucked away in cash for a rainy day. Now 30 years later we have an unpaid inter generational debt of £1.2bn. How did that happen? If we carry forward our debts as they are already accruing the Island is going to have to be generating huge budget surpluses and have massive reserves 10 years from now to even service the interest payments on what falls due. Its a total mess, but like the VAT shortfall nobody here wants to deal with the problem until it blows up in their face and fires shit into the stratosphere! Like everything this government does, they think they will find some fiddle that means that the UK taxpayer picks up the bill so they won't have to do anything.

Sultan,correct me if I am wrong but as a "Crown Dependency" we are not allowed to have a budget deficit? Think about that and think about those consequences in the future.Ballaughpedestrian has a certain ring to it...

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There seems to be an awful lot of jealousy over teachers in this thread...

 

And why not? Massive holidays, brilliant pensions, most out the door at 50 due to "stress", and plenty of spare time to pursue useless religions that annoy people on their own doorsteps. That said its more an argument now about government workers sucking more and more money out of the economy. Teachers do at least provide a service and value for money in most cases. Some other government workers are just a total fucking drain on the taxpayer. SJR is about right on the deficit here - its now been reported at about £1.2bn that the taxpayer has to meet over the next 50 years or so to pay the pensions bill for government employees. I'll repeat that - £1.2bn - pounds Sterling. They are paying in nothing in comparison to what they are taking out when they retire. Absolutely nothing. All the debts are being sunk into the next generations here and there will be a time when the money runs out. If we look back to the late 70's here the budget reserve fund was around £1m, that is to say that we only had £1m tucked away in cash for a rainy day. Now 30 years later we have an unpaid inter generational debt of £1.2bn. How did that happen? If we carry forward our debts as they are already accruing the Island is going to have to be generating huge budget surpluses and have massive reserves 10 years from now to even service the interest payments on what falls due. Its a total mess, but like the VAT shortfall nobody here wants to deal with the problem until it blows up in their face and fires shit into the stratosphere! Like everything this government does, they think they will find some fiddle that means that the UK taxpayer picks up the bill so they won't have to do anything.

Sultan,correct me if I am wrong but as a "Crown Dependency" we are not allowed to have a budget deficit? Think about that and think about those consequences in the future.Ballaughpedestrian has a certain ring to it...

 

Wrong. Crown Dependencies can have deficits. Jersey and Guernsey have the flexibility to do this. Here constitutionally though the IOMG can't run a deficit but I think that is a local issue of law rather than us specifically as a Crown Dependency. This is the issue - an £80m VAT shortfall next year has to be paid for. In Jersey they could just borrow the money and create a budget deficit. We can't.

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Now we're getting there.... a 14% government contribution on top of the 6% employee contribution that's er, er, 20% in the non existant pot then. A fifth of the average earnings each year for 35 years + compound interest. So, we're not talking about a £50k pot are we? Funny you didn't point out that error in my calculations before.

Edited by ballaughbiker
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