Jump to content

Is There A God ?


ScotsAlan
 Share

Recommended Posts

What Moslems do in their war and hatred is entirely in accordance to the teaching of Mohammed.

And, of course, Jehovah!

 

You ignore The Prophets and the teaching of Christ.

 

What's more what was mandated by The Lord in the OT was to the jews in their journey to their Promised Land and was moderated by the Prophets as circumstances changed until Christ brought us the code we know and love as Christianity

 

How amazing it is that so few people actually understand The Bible and Christianity and yet are so ready to criticise both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 324
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

You ignore The Prophets and the teaching of Christ.

I am not ignoring the teachings of Christ but Muslims do because they do not accept the divinity of Jesus - they just see him as another prophet of Allah.

 

What's more what was mandated by The Lord in the OT was to the jews in their journey to their Promised Land and was moderated by the Prophets as circumstances changed until Christ brought us the code we know and love as Christianity

Given the contemporaneous nature of the Law and Prophets as we have them, I cannot accept this tale. And Jesus taught obedience to the Law and often extended it rather than changed it.

 

How amazing it is that so few people actually understand The Bible and Christianity and yet are so ready to criticise both.

Especially those who claim it to be the inviolate Word of God and not a work of human beings!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What Moslems do in their war and hatred is entirely in accordance to the teaching of Mohammed.

And, of course, Jehovah!

 

You ignore The Prophets and the teaching of Christ.

 

What's more what was mandated by The Lord in the OT was to the jews in their journey to their Promised Land and was moderated by the Prophets as circumstances changed until Christ brought us the code we know and love as Christianity

 

How amazing it is that so few people actually understand The Bible and Christianity and yet are so ready to criticise both.

 

I have struggled with the Bible. But I think the Gospels are very cleverly composed. They have a common theme, of love and understanding. The bits before seem to be a history, the bits after are just opinions. To me anyway :-)

 

My question "Does God exist", is not "Does God exist and is he Catholic or Muslim?"

 

To me, He just exists. Why do I believe that? Because what about the people who lived and died before the mainstream religions? The native Americans for example, before they were discovered and "educated". And ok, I know the Mormoms claim to know about that one.

 

To me, God is across all faiths. The same God.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Often you can't rationalise what you feel. But the important thing is what you thought and think. You said you saw what it was all about. But what was that? And why did it lead you to think that the Christian God is real?

 

What makes you so certain everyone will have that moment? For starters, you had that moment from reading the Bible. But do you also think that scientologists will have that moment, Japanese buddhists or Indian hindus will that moment? As you are talking about some 'moment' connected with the Christian God.

 

And no, we don't have a choice to believe in the here and now. Do you have a choice whether to believe in Bigfoot or flying pigs? If there is a Judgement Day with the Christian God after we die, then we would HAVE to believe. But will there be one? No good reason to think so.

But remember Pascal's bet, LDV! :devil:

I know it well. I am sure you do too. It is a stupid argument to make. A flawed argument.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have struggled with the Bible. But I think the Gospels are very cleverly composed. They have a common theme, of love and understanding. The bits before seem to be a history, the bits after are just opinions. To me anyway :-)

You think the Old Testament is to be accepted as just a bit of history? Are you just picking and choosing the bits you like?

 

My question "Does God exist", is not "Does God exist and is he Catholic or Muslim?"

??? I don't know what you're talking about.

 

When I refer to the Christian God, for example, I am referring to the God of the Bible - the one who features in the Old and New Testament. If I was referring to Allah it would be in reference to what is in the Quran.

 

To me, He just exists. Why do I believe that? Because what about the people who lived and died before the mainstream religions? The native Americans for example, before they were discovered and "educated". And ok, I know the Mormoms claim to know about that one.
What about them? The Native Americans didn't have a Bible and didn't have a God.

 

To me, God is across all faiths. The same God.
You keep saying that. But what makes you think it?

 

It does seem that you have settled for a belief in God because it just seems very nice and because you had a feeling you have never felt before.

 

But what do you know of this God. What IS this God? Can you describe him? You say he is the same God as all faiths, which is pretty absurd and silly to believe. But what does that mean, what's he like?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

My question "Does God exist", is not "Does God exist and is he Catholic or Muslim?"

??? I don't know what you're talking about.

 

 

Come on LDV, you are just doing reactive posting. I made a simple statement. And you give a "shock and horror" reply.

 

You really don't know what I am talking about? Yeah, right....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not shock and horror, it's 'what are you talking about, doesn't make sense'.

 

A Christian, Catholic, Muslim or terms to refer to the believer. Not the God. The God can't be a Catholic.

But for a Catholic (Christian), the God they talk about can be termed the Christian God.

 

 

It makes sense to me. The question is: "Does God Exist?" No specific interpretation of God was specified.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Forget it. You're misunderstanding me.

 

What makes sense to you has to make sense to other people if they are trying to understand what ideas you have in your head.

 

In asking the question, does God exist, you HAVE to give a definition for YOUR idea of a God. Because people have different ideas as to what their God is.

 

Now you might think that everyone has the same idea of God in their head, but I think you'll find you're wrong. Some people think their God is just the universe, some think their God is exactly the God described in the Bible. Some think their God intervenes in the world all the time, others do not. Some think their God created the universe and then stopped intervening. There are many, many different understandings that are a reflected of a belief based that is based on faith and in many cases based on the idea of an entity meeting desires.

 

You can't ask the question and just presume people know what you're talking about, although I gather that you think the God of the Bible is also the same God that other people follow. Though this makes things far more problematic for you in demonstrating this.

 

In a similar way, if I asked you does Monster exist, you would ask me what I meant by Monster.

 

Define YOUR God. What does he do, what is he like, etc. Do you believe he is exactly as the Bible states?

Edited by La_Dolce_Vita
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To me, God is across all faiths. The same God.

 

The same God. But different faiths understand him differently (even different churches).

 

For that reason, I would happily pray with a Muslim, or any other faith. So long as that prayer is in respect to God.

 

Whilst I believe that my church's interpretation of God is the 'correct one', I also respect other people's interpretation.

Edited by DjDan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hee hee - I'm being over verbose again - Sorry!

 

@Evil Goblin - I suspect that our beliefs are pretty similar, but that our rhetoric is exaggerating the difference. This basically IS a discussion about epistemology, and ultimately I agree with much of what you are saying.

 

What is interesting is you say you believe that the Black Sea isn't made of orange juice, but that you know the Irish Sea isn't. Basically though I don't disagree with your extreme position - how can you know anything - and so find your caveats here intriguing.

 

I find the idea that you trust your senses so significantly more than the rational, repeated reports of neutral outsiders overdone. My view is that we mediate EVERYTHING via a perceptial model, and that model has significant weaknesses, but also it does also give us a useable representation of reality - this representation IS NOT perfect, but for me it means large areas of both our senses AND received reports are not controversial.

 

I think you really have an overblown view of my scientism - though I admit I am a strong believer in the power of science, so maybe its understandable.

 

I fully admit that there are vast areas of ignorance where science though attempting to know is currently unable to do so, and also that there are many areas where science simply cannot ever be definitive - such as moral choices where science can only provide the raw material on which we place our tastes and choices.

 

So given all the above where is the beef of our disagreement. Mainly I think you are making claims which would make your perceptial model totally unusable if you really thought this way. We do not have to argue about epistemology every moment of our lives - we know what the Black Sea is, we know the difference between sea water and orange juice. We do believe broad factual claims about tsunamis. We have enough robust redundancy in our definitions of these words to swamp the epistemological uncertainty that does undoubtedly exist.

 

If we wanted to spend hours with a post-modern deconstruction of all these - we could do so - and if we did we'd have to admit the weakness of perceptial models and the basical epistemological uncertainty all of us will always face*. But doing that wouldn't change anything much from where we already are.

 

We exist in uncertainty - but that doesn't mean we are paralysed. As Witgenstein says we do act. We can and do make decisions and have views on what reality is. Those are always caveated, but if someone says there are fairies at the bottom of the garden then we do know broadly what to expect.

 

This now brings us to what I think is the main area of this whole debate - one person has a perceptial model which sees a God acting and influencing in the world - someone else cannot see this. What does this tell us.

 

I do not believe that this tells us reality is different for these two people - I say they have different perceptual models.

 

In all these debates I have never said there is no God - I have always admitted it is not possible to know this. Other people have claimed they do believe in a God and I have always challenged them on what basis do they believe this. My understanding is that you have defended these people saying they have just as much right to make their positive claims, as I have. I disagree – these positive claims are unjustified, just as all claims to knowledge are unjustified – I am not making a strong claims saying I question these people – I am not saying God does not exist, I am saying how do they know he/she/it/they exist(s).

 

Evil Goblin – I feel that there is a scale of uncertainty – nothing is known for certain, but we can have greater faith in the existence of Japan than the existence of dragons, fairies or Gods.

 

Do you really disagree with this?

 

Part of the reason I do think there is a scale of uncertainty is down to definitional clarity. I am pretty certain a triangle exists, when it is defined in Euclidian space. Castletown has less certainty, but no where near enough for me to think debating the specifics of its epistemology is worthwhile.

 

When we get to fairies or Gods – then the definitional uncertainty – just exactly what the heck are you talking about is far far greater, to the extent the terms are basically meaningless.

 

It is this uncertainty which has far greater significance than the confusion we have about anything existing.

 

Lets ask Spook or ScotsAlan – what is this thing they say they believe in. I bet you they cannot tell you. I think that is significant. Evil Goblin don’t you?

 

*May I say again, I genuinely think you would enjoy reading A Daoist Theory of Chinese Thought - Chad Hansen's analysis of the Daodejing and the Zhuangzi shows how Daoist philosophy (NOT religion) was encompassing many of Kant's and Witgenstein's ideas 2300 years ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The question is: "Does God Exist?" No specific interpretation of God was specified.

But what does God even mean - can you even start to define it? If you can't how can you say you believe it exists - you are putting the cart before the theological horse!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To me, God is across all faiths. The same God.

 

The same God. But different faiths understand him differently (even different churches).

 

For that reason, I would happily pray with a Muslim, or any other faith. So long as that prayer is in respect to God.

 

Whilst I believe that my church's interpretation of God is the 'correct one', I also respect other people's interpretation.

 

As a Christian first, and a church member second, I totally agree that The Lord is the same across Christian and jewish sects, but draw the line before we get to Islam.

 

I do this for three principle reasons.

 

Firstly the history behind Islam and how and why it came in to being, secondly the gross errors contained in Islam when compared with what is on record before Mohamed was even selling his first used camels, and thirdly the very nature of the Muslim deity compared to The Lord.

 

I do not deny that there are many good and decent people in spite of being Muslim, just as there are some horrible people in spite of claiming to be Christian. Or that there are some dreadful so called Christian churches that actually use cherry picked Christianity as the basis of what are actually singularly UN Christian organisations, but the fact remains, Islam is NOT an Abrahamic religion despite the claims, it is a religion that worships the inventions of Mohammed who falsely made that association.

 

Now I must go. Sunday is a busy day for me as by now will probably be obvious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...