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You Must Speak Ze English, Ja!


Amadeus
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Scarbunny - I agree that it is a good idea that people learn the language. I'm just not convinced that making it a rule, setting an exam and then blindly enforcing it is the way forward.

 

Piebaps - there's also a cost in administrating these rules, setting the tests etc. Besides we are talking about the spouses of Manx people/residents. Surely they can do the translating etc.

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I agree with you, Declan. I think it is completely unjust. I believe in the free movement of people across the world. I don't believe the existence of nation states simply warrants a 'nation' determining who can come into their land or not.

No doubt problems are caused when people come and don't learn the language. And it is far better if they do. But they shouldn't be made to and it shouldn't be a requirement for going somewhere.

 

How has this come about? Through legislation? And who are those who decided this policy?

Edited by La_Dolce_Vita
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I'm just a bit surprised that they've done this and one debatable assumption is that immigration is more out of control then I first thought. (others?)

 

Strikes me as a very bad move. Without the immigrants, who don't forget pay taxes, we would be struggling to fill the more "menial" jobs that the locals don't want.

 

What does it matter if you speak English well? This island has welcomed with open arms lots of Irish for the past 30 years and I for one know a few that I cannot understand a word that they are saying, same for any strong accent from parts of the UK.

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I agree with you, Declan. I think it is completely unjust. I believe in the free movement of people across the world. I don't believe the existence of nation states simply warrants a 'nation' determining who can come into their land or not.

No doubt problems are caused when people come and don't learn the language. And it is far better if they do. But they shouldn't be made to and it shouldn't be a requirement for going somewhere.

 

How has this come about? Through legislation? And who are those who decided this policy?

 

LDV I agree with you too on this issue and well said.

 

I think we all sort of know that this island is institutionally racist, just when they actually introduce rules that confirm that, it is still a bit of a shock.

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Speaking as a foreigner, I think it's in any person's own interest to learn the language if you move to another country where your own language is not the main one. In fact, it should be strongly encouraged - if that should go as far as making it the law is a big question, but I'm leaning towards saying 'yes'.

 

At least you should have a grasp of the basics and be able to prove that. The UK/Irish dialect argument doesn't really work IMHO - people from those areas can still read forms, warning signs, or differentiate between Tonsils and Testicles should it come to that. Yes, the spoken word is important as well and believe me I friggin struggled with the first Geordies and Scotsmen who tried to communicate with me, but it was in my own best interest to adapt and learn.

 

The case of someone falling in love abroad and bringing their loved one to here is an interesting one - what if that love doesn't last forever? He or she who never tried to learn the language would suddenly be alone without any real communication skills, seriously hampering any chances of getting on with life and reaching a reasonable quality of the same, i.e. decent job, social life, etc.

 

Might not be seen as entirely fair or just, but not everything in life is and sometimes a bit of effort is required. English is hardly the most difficult language to learn and the basics should be easy to achieve.

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I can't think that anyone would not want to speak the language where they live but a compulsory test? That's going a bit far. Plenty of brits live abroad refuse to make any effort to speak the lingo and nobody forces them with a test.

 

LDV - whilst your belief that a nation shouldn't restrict entry to whoever wants to go <there> they have to to restrict access to services everyone else has paid for. Whilst I firmly believe that you should have access to all services that locals do if you work and pay taxes (as in this case) many countries now restrict (eg) healthcare if you don't contribute.

Edited by ballaughbiker
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The wierd bit is that an EEA or Swiss citizen can arrive without any immigration controls and could have no grasp of the lingo at all. We're simply disciminating against non EEA citizens.

 

 

As always yes.

 

Having experienced the [illegal] actions of the immigration office first hand, it is clear that they will take any opportunity to stop people from coming here. With the new rules on language, it's + 1 to them again. It's not about language (hence a Hungarian who doesn't know English is able to stay here without any problems..), it's about finding another way to try and block people from entering.

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In answer to several of the posters, this has come about because they / we simply don't have a choice. The UK effectively controls Immigration policy and has responsibility for policing the 'Borders'.

 

The IOM also has obligations under one of the Immigration Acts in respect of the free movement of people within the EEA (plus Switzerland). Hence the effective 'discrimination' towards non EEA peeps.

 

Remember, that to gain 'entry' to the IOM, you have to transit via the UK first, so if we didn't follow 'their' rules, they could simply turn them away at their border controls anyway. We are stuck with this I'm afraid.

 

In terms of the 'menial' jobs. The introduction of the points based system last year already severely limits the scope of employers to bring in non EEA staff for low level work such as care home staff (unless senior).

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Who want's ghettos? Well, no-one with any common sense anyway...

 

In Northern Manchester it's a huge problem. One of the biggest barrier's to integration is language. So the stupid authorities issue school prospectus and all sorts in various different languages and dialects. Why? They're actually encouraging segregation FFS!

 

If there's nothing to be gained by learning the language then why bother? So you get ghettos and ZERO progress on integration. The way the various none C-of-E religions subjugate women as a matter of course doesn't help either...

 

Tossers. So today I voted for Spoilt Ballot Papers in the local elections. I also voted YES, NO, DON'T KNOW on the AV Referendum. That'll teach them to drag me out in the rain....

 

Tomorrow I'll find out if Cleggy has destroyed the party I spent so many years supporting until I sent my card back. I can't help thinking he was a disaster waiting for a time and a place to prove that everybody was right about him in the first place. Cameron and Osborne certainly were....

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Speaking as a foreigner, I think it's in any person's own interest to learn the language if you move to another country where your own language is not the main one.

We look forward to you doing that. :rolleyes:

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Remember, that to gain 'entry' to the IOM, you have to transit via the UK first, so if we didn't follow 'their' rules, they could simply turn them away at their border controls anyway.

 

Not necessarily the case. The IOM has its own immigration rules (though by in large they tie in with the UK), and so long as you have been permitted access to the IOM, the UK will not turn you away. In any case, they can verify your status with the IOM immigration officials if required before allowing you through.

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Remember, that to gain 'entry' to the IOM, you have to transit via the UK first, so if we didn't follow 'their' rules, they could simply turn them away at their border controls anyway.

 

Not necessarily the case. The IOM has its own immigration rules (though by in large they tie in with the UK), and so long as you have been permitted access to the IOM, the UK will not turn you away. In any case, they can verify your status with the IOM immigration officials if required before allowing you through.

 

That is utter cack. If you do not have the legal right to enter or reside in the UK you cannot legally settle in the IoM.

Edited by hboy
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Remember, that to gain 'entry' to the IOM, you have to transit via the UK first, so if we didn't follow 'their' rules, they could simply turn them away at their border controls anyway.

 

Not necessarily the case. The IOM has its own immigration rules (though by in large they tie in with the UK), and so long as you have been permitted access to the IOM, the UK will not turn you away. In any case, they can verify your status with the IOM immigration officials if required before allowing you through.

 

That is utter cack. If you do not have the legal right to enter or reside in the UK you cannot legally settle in the IoM.

 

The admission of foreign nationals is regulated by the Isle of Man Immigration Rules. The Rules lay down the requirements for the entry and stay of foreign nationals in the Isle of Man. The Isle of Man Rules, whilst not identical to the United Kingdom (UK) Rules, are based on the UK Rules and are very similar. However, they are not identical and there are some provisions in the UK Rules that do not apply here and some in the Isle of Man Rules that do not apply in the UK. There are also, as in the UK, provisions in the Rules that apply only to Commonwealth citizens. It is important that people interested in emigrating to the Isle of Man check to see what the requirements are as it may be that an entry clearance is required. Without the necessary entry clearance the passenger may be refused entry to the United Kingdom or the Isle of Man.

 

http://www.gov.im/cso/immigration/rules.xml

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Remember, that to gain 'entry' to the IOM, you have to transit via the UK first, so if we didn't follow 'their' rules, they could simply turn them away at their border controls anyway.

 

Not necessarily the case. The IOM has its own immigration rules (though by in large they tie in with the UK), and so long as you have been permitted access to the IOM, the UK will not turn you away. In any case, they can verify your status with the IOM immigration officials if required before allowing you through.

 

That is utter cack. If you do not have the legal right to enter or reside in the UK you cannot legally settle in the IoM.

 

The admission of foreign nationals is regulated by the Isle of Man Immigration Rules. The Rules lay down the requirements for the entry and stay of foreign nationals in the Isle of Man. The Isle of Man Rules, whilst not identical to the United Kingdom (UK) Rules, are based on the UK Rules and are very similar. However, they are not identical and there are some provisions in the UK Rules that do not apply here and some in the Isle of Man Rules that do not apply in the UK. There are also, as in the UK, provisions in the Rules that apply only to Commonwealth citizens. It is important that people interested in emigrating to the Isle of Man check to see what the requirements are as it may be that an entry clearance is required. Without the necessary entry clearance the passenger may be refused entry to the United Kingdom or the Isle of Man.

 

http://www.gov.im/cso/immigration/rules.xml

 

You only copied half of that paragraph, it actually says

 

I am a foreign national. What are the requirements if I want to come and live on the Isle of Man?

 

The admission of foreign nationals is regulated by the Isle of Man Immigration Rules. The Rules lay down the requirements for the entry and stay of foreign nationals in the Isle of Man. The Isle of Man Rules, whilst not identical to the United Kingdom (UK) Rules, are based on the UK Rules and are very similar. However, they are not identical and there are some provisions in the UK Rules that do not apply here and some in the Isle of Man Rules that do not apply in the UK. There are also, as in the UK, provisions in the Rules that apply only to Commonwealth citizens. It is important that people interested in emigrating to the Isle of Man check to see what the requirements are as it may be that an entry clearance is required. Without the necessary entry clearance the passenger may be refused entry to the United Kingdom or the Isle of Man.

 

To check if you need a visa go to: http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/doineedvisa/ If you need a visa for the United Kingdom you will need a visa for the Isle of Man.

 

To find out how much your visa will cost go to http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/howtoapply/visafees/visafeescrowndependencies

 

So if you ain't got a UK VISA first you ain't going anywhere and if you arrive here without a UK VISA you're on the first boat back to Heysham.

Edited by hboy
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