ManxTaxPayer Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 It is a tough job, and I'm glad you are recognising how well it has been done. Indeed, both tough and unique. I couldn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebees Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Are they local men? It's most unpleasant but at least they were doing what they wanted to, so, although I think they're all crazy to even get on a bike, I have the greatest respect for them doing what they love. My sons are bike mad...I've told them you have to be 50 to own a motor bike, I do so hope they'll get over the love of motor bikes before they're old enough to get into them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 How many more lives must be destroyed before this lunatic carnage is banned? I recall David Jefferies being interviewed on the start line one TT. He said that every single rider is fully aware of the risks involved and all know that they may be seriously injured or even worse on the course. Not a single person racing off down Bray Hill has been forced to do it - they have decided to do it themselves. That was the year that David Jefferies died at Crosby after crashing. I take it you have never given a death message to friends, family etc, let alone having to deal with the aftermath, selfish outlook if you ask me. Yes I have - both to families relating to a normal Road Accident, and been present when families have been told about a competitor's death on the TT course. I've also been present on the TT course when competitors have lost their lives or suffered life changing injuries and have dealt with the grief along with the marshals and spectators who also witnessed the terrible accident. For the families of those involved in a normal RTC, there is obvious devestation as it is completely out of the blue. For those told about a death on the TT Course, the grief is the same, however, there has usually been a discussion between the deceased and their families prior to taking part about the risks involved and they have all considered what "may happen". It's very hard to describe (and some on this forum will interpet it differently), but imagine you have a very sick or old relative and know that they will pass away soon, then when the message is received, there is grief but you have almost planned for it. It could be similar for TT competitors (or any motorsport event, or any "hazardous" event) in that they know this activity has claimed the lives of others, yet still do it (and I assume with the consent of their partners/loved ones). Most will have discussed with their families what may happen. Condolances to the familes of those involved, plus thoughts with the marshals who were at the scene who had to deal with an horiffic accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishManx Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Well said andrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadabing Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) Much respect goes out to the two riders and their families. They were both older racers with Bill Currie finishing for the first time in 1969, I think if anyone knew the dangers of the race he would of been your man. Kevin Morgan had been at it since 1984, so the story would of been the same for him. They knew the risks, and I just hope they had a damm good time for the many decades of previous racing they have had. RIP Edited June 1, 2011 by Kadabing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) I'm probably going to get in trouble for saying this. I really respect the fact that a 67 year old and a 59 year old so love the TT that they were willing to attempt to ride in it, I am sure they were unique individuals, in love with the road racing community and the lifestyle it embodies. I hope their families are able to come to terms with their deaths, and I give my sincere condolences. But for me their deaths say something about the organization of the TT which needs to be raised. These men were racing publically, they knew what they were doing, their family knew what they are doing, and so I do not think it is wrong of me to talk about the organization which allowed them to race. No doubt the heart was totally there for these two old men to race, but how could the body have been able? Is the TT a professional event with rigourous standards who only allows the most talented individuals to place themselves in deadly risk on the world's most dangerous racing track? Or does it basically run an amateur all-comers-welcome, the-more-the-merrier event where it has no responsibility to allowing people well beyond the age where reactions and strength have declined to race? If the entry requirements are such that a 67 year old and a 59 year old can pass them to race then that for me says they are not sufficiently rigourous to ensure only the most able are able to take on the most challenging. The TT organizers should have a moral and public duty to ensure that people who over-estimate their abilities, and so put not only themselves, but also other racers, marshals and spectators at risk, do not race. I feel that allowing 67 and 59 year olds race is a dereliction of that duty and puts at risk too many people. If the Mountain Course is to mean anything it must be as a place where only the best of the best can race; not as an event where aging amateurs put themselves and every one else involved at risk by taking on odds their bodies no longer have the ability to take. Edited June 1, 2011 by Chinahand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 I must admit, I was surprised when I heard the drivers age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 age isn't everything, an 83yr old won the classic race at Billown the other day, 60 is just a youngster RIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I can take your point Chinahand but these guys, although more elderly than most, were fit, experienced and dedicated sportsmen, no more amateur than most of the TT competitors. There was once an age limit of 55 on international racing. This was found to be unfair in the modern environment and repealed. I would however wait until after the inquest to comment on the likely cause of this accident, as speculation will probably be incorrect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silentbob Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 They would need to have undertaken a full medical for their licenses, we have just had an 83 year old win at Billown. You cannot start making wild claims that age alone should be a factor in allowing somebody to race. Anyway... I am sure these guys had many years of superb racing and were doing what they loved, RIP gents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweek Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I'm probably going to get in trouble for saying this. If the entry requirements are such that a 67 year old and a 59 year old can pass them to race then that for me says they are not sufficiently rigourous to ensure only the most able are able to take on the most challenging. Personally, I know some people who are over 67 that have faster reactions than many 30/40 years olds. It doesn't matter sometimes how fast your reactions are - a fact that numerous racers, many far younger than that, have found to their cost - because at 140mph there is so little time or run off to avoid obstacles and/or an accident. Mechanical failure, a puncture or even a new 'bump' in the road can undo even those with the fastest reactions of all. That aside, these guys had plenty of experience and knew the course well. There are all kinds of prequisites to be able to race on the island. There is no requirement to go faster than you did last year, people go at their own 'safe' speeds. These were sensible riders taking part in something they have done for many years. Above all though Chinahand, you don't know the cause of the accident yet, and age might not be a factor at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 Personally, I know some people who are over 67 that have faster reactions than many 30/40 years olds. I'd love to know how you measured and compared those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweek Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Personally, I know some people who are over 67 that have faster reactions than many 30/40 years olds. I'd love to know how you measured and compared those. All based on times getting to the back of the group in bar queues when it was their round. Seriously though, 67 is no age these days. All people are different, and have different experience. If it was their first year racing I might be inclined to agree - but it wasn't. Blame is being inferred based on age - when it is likely to have had nothing to do with what happened IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 Presumably they'd have needed to pass a medical at some stage anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I can't be alone in thinking that while I like the T.T. I can't help wondering if it's all worth it. As I type this the 2011 T.T. is only a few days in and already we have chaos and carnage on Manx country roads. Roads are closed all over the place and there's not even any practising on till tonight. Two elderly competitors (and their families) are wiped out, our Chief Minister has not spoken, marshalls are fed up, people are sleeping in tents because there's no hotels left for them etc. The national press will have a field day with the latest tragedy. Is it going to get any better ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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