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Guilt implies a crime, and as Nitro said, triangles aren't enforced speedlimits. The justification he gave as far as I can see is entirely legitimate, and a problem anyone could have encountered in the same place, if the signs aren't up at a decent distance there's no way you can be down to 20 by the time you get to the workers. Unfortunately I think the fault lies with them on this one!

 

As for the other "incident", overtaking isn't a crime and as far as I can see there's no reason the overtake should have been considered "unsafe". Perhaps if the OP had been back with more details about exactly what their complaint was (because reading the first post, the complaint seems to be "He was going faster than I liked and his car is loud") we could make a better assessment, but the OP appears to have vanished.

 

Re: The quicker car, I own a fairly quick car. But that doesn't make me drive it quickly where it's not very safe to do so (I guess it helps that I'm a sissy). The guy says he goes up to Duke trackdays often so I would guess he's going to get the most use out of it there.

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To be fair, if drivers were to be considerate and leave enough space between cars when crawling around the island there would be no need for anyone to have to do multiple overtakes. In fact nobody wou

Have to say the amount of times you get flashed and horns blown while you pass 3-5 cars on the moutain is utter madness. yes you may like to do 30mph and all the others might well be 2 scared to overt

You consistently try to insult me and yet would like me to explain myself to you. Who are you exactly? Its becoming tiresome. You've assumed my post about "let my eyes wonder" means I take my eyes off

driving past a line of 4 or 6 cars is not safe, cannot be. You cannot tell what may happen on the nearside, even if you can see ahead. Of course the cars should be far enough apart to allow overtaking one at a time and that is what you should do.

It worries me that you hold this belief and (presumably) have an opinion in court. There are numerous places on the island where you can pass 6 cars safely, especially if they are travelling slowly and you have a car with some decent punt.

 

I can see both sides of the coin, I have overtook 2-3 cars before now (whist overtaking a slow driver on a straight stretch I might add) and a car infront of me didn't check his mirrors and just pulled out, no indication or anything, its one of the situations whether you either try and accelerate out or brake hard and pull back in. If this happened whilst overtaking 6 cars (even if I calculated the distance accurately ) it could possibly leave me with nowhere to go, there isn't enough room for error over here, once you start overtaking 9 times out of 10 your committed and that's it. Its not a question of ability (car or driver) but that of other road users.

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driving past a line of 4 or 6 cars is not safe, cannot be. You cannot tell what may happen on the nearside, even if you can see ahead. Of course the cars should be far enough apart to allow overtaking one at a time and that is what you should do.

It worries me that you hold this belief and (presumably) have an opinion in court. There are numerous places on the island where you can pass 6 cars safely, especially if they are travelling slowly and you have a car with some decent punt.

 

I can see both sides of the coin, I have overtook 2-3 cars before now (whist overtaking a slow driver on a straight stretch I might add) and a car infront of me didn't check his mirrors and just pulled out, no indication or anything, its one of the situations whether you either try and accelerate out or brake hard and pull back in. If this happened whilst overtaking 6 cars (even if I calculated the distance accurately ) it could possibly leave me with nowhere to go, there isn't enough room for error over here, once you start overtaking 9 times out of 10 your committed and that's it. Its not a question of ability (car or driver) but that of other road users.

 

Indeed, but you could hit that same problem any time, regardless of what you're doing yourself. All you need is some idiot misjudging their corner and ending up on the wrong side of the road and it's curtains for you. Unfortunately it's a risk we have to decide to take if we're going to not have to walk to work! Everything in life is a calculated risk. If I was travelling down that long straight on the S100 (I'm terrible with names) and there was ~5 cars in front doing 40mph, as long as I could see the lead vehicle so that I could have a fair idea of why they're driving slowly, I'd overtake them. The risk is low enough that I'd consider it not worth worrying about.

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My experience over 30 years in courts has been that AIM qualified drivers are worse and proportionately more likley to end up committing a moving traffic offence than the population at large because they believe they are better drivers and they have a god driven right to drive in a fashion which is "agressive".

 

Also I would question this. Insurance companies give discount to these drivers, and you can be damn sure they wouldn't if the incident rates were higher.

 

EDIT: Sorry for the multi-posting, I'm an awful human being.

Edited by HeliX
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Indeed, but you could hit that same problem any time, regardless of what you're doing yourself. All you need is some idiot misjudging their corner and ending up on the wrong side of the road and it's curtains for you. Unfortunately it's a risk we have to decide to take if we're going to not have to walk to work! Everything in life is a calculated risk. If I was travelling down that long straight on the S100 (I'm terrible with names) and there was ~5 cars in front doing 40mph, as long as I could see the lead vehicle so that I could have a fair idea of why they're driving slowly, I'd overtake them. The risk is low enough that I'd consider it not worth worrying about.

 

If everyone had some sort of training (asides from learning to pass a test, which could be 50 years out of date or more....), I think the odds would be better though, perhaps even people would realise that their car might not actually deliver the best mpg at 40mph everywhere and in fact most cars are tested to be most economical at a constant 60Mph, that running their cars at low RPM for long periods actually increases deposit build up, not letting their cars get upto temperature once in a while (those who drive <1 mile) can also harm the engine and that replacing fluids is important regardless if you do 800 miles in a year or 8,000.

 

Edit : Oh and that roundabouts actually have a give way feature, its not supposed to be like a medieval jousting contest.

Edited by Nitro
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Indeed, but you could hit that same problem any time, regardless of what you're doing yourself. All you need is some idiot misjudging their corner and ending up on the wrong side of the road and it's curtains for you. Unfortunately it's a risk we have to decide to take if we're going to not have to walk to work! Everything in life is a calculated risk. If I was travelling down that long straight on the S100 (I'm terrible with names) and there was ~5 cars in front doing 40mph, as long as I could see the lead vehicle so that I could have a fair idea of why they're driving slowly, I'd overtake them. The risk is low enough that I'd consider it not worth worrying about.

 

If everyone had some sort of training (asides from learning to pass a test, which could be 50 years out of date or more....), I think the odds would be better though, perhaps even people would realise that their car might not actually deliver the best mpg at 40mph everywhere and in fact most cars are tested to be most economical at a constant 60Mph, that running their cars at low RPM for long periods actually increases deposit build up, not letting their cars get upto tempreture once in a while (those who drive <1 mile) can also harm the engine and that replacing fluids is important regardless if you do 800 miles in a year or 8,000.

 

Unfortunately, solutions that rely on the general public not being idiotic rarely work :P

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I have slowed down since the above!! Also taking on some advice from JW. One thing with the car overtaking people do not leave the space and sometimes when there is the space the guy in front see's you doing so then speeds up making any gap impossable to move into making everything more dangerous and forcing you to make these larger overtakes.

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forcing you to make these larger overtakes.

 

As above, that is the real risk, people are truly unpredictable, more so the ones who have powerful cars and only choose to use them as weapons when someone tries to make progress. no amount of advanced training can help that!

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So the only person with any significant experience of such issues (presumably from defending lunatics in court and/or pursuing or defending insurance claims) says (i) advanced drivers are actually worse (because of their feeling that they are entitled to drive aggresively) and (ii) the overtaking manoeuvre was inherently unsafe.

 

Has deano given anyone the impression that his advanced driver's certificate entitles him to drive how the fuck he likes? You betcha. I think any impartial reader can probably reach the right conclusion as to how safe his overtaking was too...

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Has deano given anyone the impression that his advanced driver's certificate entitles him to drive how the fuck he likes? You betcha. I think any impartial reader can probably reach the right conclusion as to how safe his overtaking was too...

 

People make mistakes, people learn from mistakes, that is part of life. The same can be said that you'll learn from your mistake when someone in a HGV crosses 'your' white line. Had Deano known he was about to become posted on an internet forum for his driving I very much doubt he'd of overtook as it wouldn't of been worth the hassle...........would it?

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Has deano given anyone the impression that his advanced driver's certificate entitles him to drive how the fuck he likes? You betcha. I think any impartial reader can probably reach the right conclusion as to how safe his overtaking was too...

 

People make mistakes, people learn from mistakes, that is part of life. The same can be said that you'll learn from your mistake when someone in a HGV crosses 'your' white line. Had Deano known he was about to become posted on an internet forum for his driving I very much doubt he'd of overtook as it wouldn't of been worth the hassle...........would it?

 

Well, he came on here, bigged himself up (and his advanced driving certificate), brought his girlfriend into the equation, and now seems in headlong retreat. Christ knows what the limits of his idiocy are, frankly

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Allow me to rewrite this a little for you.

 

So the only person with any significant experience of such issues (presumably from defending lunatics in court and/or pursuing or defending insurance claims) says (i) advanced drivers are actually worse (because of their feeling that they are entitled to drive aggresively) and (ii) the overtaking manoeuvre was inherently unsafe.

A person who claims, on the internet, to have experience of possibly being in court (doing something which there's no point trying to guess at unless we're trying to use it to further our own agenda) says that (i) advanced drivers are actually worse (which is a direct contradiction to how insurers behave towards them - insurers who make their money based off knowing how much they need to charge particular groups of people) and (ii) the overtaking manoeuvre which he didn't witness and may have, for all we know, been entirely fine, was inherently unsafe.

 

Has deano given anyone the impression that his advanced driver's certificate entitles him to drive how the fuck he likes? You betcha. I think any impartial reader can probably reach the right conclusion as to how safe his overtaking was too..

Deano has said some things which I disagree with so I'm going to use these two points to attempt to make him seem like a bad driver. I think an impartial reader can make baseless assumptions from a situation they didn't witness, because that's what I'm doing.

 

Is that a little more accurate perhaps?

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On another note, are these statistics available that prove people who hold advanced driving certificates drive worse than those who don't?, i've looked into the IAM course myself, I thought it was more like martial arts, those trained to a higher standard (or 'ability') are taught self discipline and control? Whilst car control is like more like the defence stage (what to do when it goes wrong?). Similar to martial arts, used in the wrong hands you can seriously injure/kill someone, but that's part of the self discipline/control.

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I don't think we really need to drill down into John Wright's experience in court, do we? I suspect that there is no level of evidence that would rise above an "assumption" in your terminology if its inference did not suit you.

 

So no, not more accurate at all, just a little more convenient for you.

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