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Horses Using Public Roads


Deano_iom
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As my post 2 above - I'm not suggesting an outright ban, but perhaps a best point for compromise would be to have horses use tracks/lanes where possible, and have the "connecting" strips of road between said tracks/lanes made "horse friendly", i.e. 30mph limit, signed with warnings about horses?

 

And I responded to that. If you banned horses from those sections you're basically saying they're unsafe for anything but cars. So you'd ban pedestrians, scooters and cyclists too?

 

It just doesn't make sense. We shouldn't have anything that's too dangerous for horses, and if we do, we need to deal with the danger not the horses.

 

This is only hard for you to grasp because you have a basically fixed 'car is king' mentality. It's amazing how you see things differently once you realise there are other transport options.

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As my post 2 above - I'm not suggesting an outright ban, but perhaps a best point for compromise would be to have horses use tracks/lanes where possible, and have the "connecting" strips of road between said tracks/lanes made "horse friendly", i.e. 30mph limit, signed with warnings about horses?

 

And I responded to that. If you banned horses from those sections you're basically saying they're unsafe for anything but cars. So you'd ban pedestrians, scooters and cyclists too?

 

It just doesn't make sense. We shouldn't have anything that's too dangerous for horses, and if we do, we need to deal with the danger not the horses.

 

This is only hard for you to grasp because you have a basically fixed 'car is king' mentality. It's amazing how you see things differently once you realise there are other transport options.

 

Why are we going back to making assumptions? I do plenty of walking and cycling on the roads.

 

The reason it's more inherently dangerous for horses than people/cyclists is because horses are not predictable. Horses do not like things driving past them. Horses are liable to not co-operate when spooked. Horses take up quite a large amount of space.

 

None of the above applies to bicycles.

 

EDIT: Also - let's think about this in another way too, why would a horse NEED to be on those sections?

Edited by HeliX
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Why are we going back to making assumptions? I do plenty of walking and cycling on the roads.

 

I'm making assumptions based on your position. At no point are you suggesting the solution is changing the car drivers behavour, despite them being the cause of the risks we're discussing.

 

The reason it's more inherently dangerous for horses than people/cyclists is because horses are not predictable. Horses do not like things driving past them. Horses are liable to not co-operate when spooked. Horses take up quite a large amount of space.

 

None of the above applies to bicycles.

 

Oh I see, we're going back two pages in the hope that repeating yourself makes you right?

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Why are we going back to making assumptions? I do plenty of walking and cycling on the roads.

 

I'm making assumptions based on your position. At no point are you suggesting the solution is changing the car drivers behavour, despite them being the cause of the risks we're discussing.

Well apparently I do need to repeat myself then, a page ago I said this:

"It's about reducing risk by taking an action that doesn't greatly negatively affect the horse rider. i.e. trying to use lanes/fields/tracks where possible instead of roads. It is 100% impossible to stop everyone from driving unsafely, so you have to go with a different solution."There is my justification for not changing car drivers. Because it just won't work

 

The reason it's more inherently dangerous for horses than people/cyclists is because horses are not predictable. Horses do not like things driving past them. Horses are liable to not co-operate when spooked. Horses take up quite a large amount of space.

 

None of the above applies to bicycles.

 

Oh I see, we're going back two pages in the hope that repeating yourself makes you right?

I haven't made that point before. The point is that bikes/pedestrians/scooters are NOT analogous to horses.

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Bleh, you're going round in circles. What you are proposing simply isn't practical. A horse on a farm in Crosby wants to get on the railway lines track. How does it do that without crossing the main road, fly? They can ban horses on motorways because they're allowed on A roads, there's bridges and underpasses, alternative routes.

 

It's a complex solution for a problem that doesn't exist. How many fatalities have we had?

 

If there's a risk that great to other road users from cars, drivers need to slow down. Simple as that.

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Ban cyclists too

 

Motorcyclists?

Errr...they pay Vehicle Excise Duty and the world would be a safer place if everyone rode *motorcycles.

 

*Excluding babies, children and old people

Just wondered if Tugger would ban bikes as he has given the impression in many posts that he hates bikes/bikers and would be quite happy to write off a few with his chelsea tractor, if he ever does (god forbid) I hope the 'old bill' trawl through his posts (I'd like to see him get a bit of grief)

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You dismiss my solution as impractical, but then the solution you give as an alternative is something that we both know will never work. You simply can't rely on people not to do idiotic things.

 

Now who's making assumptions? I do believe speed limits will work and make the roads safer.

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Ban cyclists too

 

Motorcyclists?

Errr...they pay Vehicle Excise Duty and the world would be a safer place if everyone rode *motorcycles.

 

*Excluding babies, children and old people

Just wondered if Tugger would ban bikes as he has given the impression in many posts that he hates bikes/bikers and would be quite happy to write off a few with his chelsea tractor, if he ever does (god forbid) I hope the 'old bill' trawl through his posts (I'd like to see him get a bit of grief)

 

You assume I'll stop

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150 years ago horses were used as a required transportation method to move goods and/or people.

 

Since the invention of the internal combustion engine they are now longer REQUIRED and are just a toy for people who can probably spare an extra few quid a year in 3rd party insurance at the very least.

 

And yes, I also think that subjecting these animals to modern road traffic is tantamount to animal cruelty.

 

I have seen 15+ horses being ridden along the main road in St Johns 3 abreast at 5pm before now, these sort of fuckwits give the majority of careful horse owners their bad name.

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It seems clear that many modern motorists (sorry to generalise) can't cope on the Islands roads with Horses, Bicycles, walkers and other vehicles. It seems like it's time to ban them..................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyone who can't ride a bicycle or a horse or walk will have to travel by a train to Port Erin and the rebuilt Peel and Ramsey Line. It won't cost much to maintain the roads without heavy motor vehicles on them so that means no-one needs to pay excise duty and we could issue the former bus drivers with rickshaws.. problem solved..... thumbsup.gif

Edited by StuartT
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You dismiss my solution as impractical, but then the solution you give as an alternative is something that we both know will never work. You simply can't rely on people not to do idiotic things.

 

Now who's making assumptions? I do believe speed limits will work and make the roads safer.

 

Because you never see cars speeding, right?

I still haven't seen a justification for lower speed limits island-wide to benefit an extremely small minority, either. Or a justification for why horses need to be on the roads in areas other than the links between trails/tracks/lanes.

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Because you never see cars speeding, right?

I still haven't seen a justification for lower speed limits island-wide to benefit an extremely small minority, either. Or a justification for why horses need to be on the roads in areas other than the links between trails/tracks/lanes.

 

Now you're making no sense at all. People breaking laws isn't justification for their not being laws.

 

Lower speed limits bring lots of benefits, and would benefit more than a small minority. Our road safety record is horrendous, and our lack of a national speed limit is undoubtedly part of that.

 

I'd be interested to see how you plan to map out your complex horsey network of what road links what track.

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Do you have figures for our road safety vs say UK or Guernsey?

 

I'm sure there's someone at the Government who could work it out, hardly the most complicated thing is it? As long as they're clearly marked, where's the problem?

 

Again - Why do horses need to be on the roads other than getting from lane to lane?

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