Jump to content
Manx Forums, Live Chat, Blogs & Classifieds for the Isle of Man
spermann

BA To Take Over London City Route?

Recommended Posts

As long as the aircraft can stop in the available distance from a 5.5 degree approach then it should be able to cope with the City but it does have to be certified for the operation. There may also be avionics restrictions. The ARJ' autopilot is certified for 'steep approach'; the Dash 8's wasn't (although it did the job perfectly well).

 

In broad terms is a steep approach less safe than a normal shallower approach? From comments about special requirements and special training it sounds to be be. The more that is capable (however unlikely and infrequently) of going wrong intuitively it sounds to be less safe - maybe only by a small percent but not a small percent on the safer side. Is that correct?

 

I think you would have to do the maths to see whether it less safe. At a crude level, there haven't been any fatal aircraft accidents at LCY since it opened in 1988.

 

When LCY opened, it had a 7.5 degree glide-slope, but unfortunately I never got a ride on that. When the runway was extended, it was reduced to 5.5 degrees,

 

I'm just a spotter, so will leave definitive comment to the pilots. I believe, though, that the LCY approach and landing is considered demanding, and that most airlines require the commander to be the pilot flying for the final approach and landing.

 

As well as the steep approach, other factors such as a relatively short runway and vortices coming off surrounding buildings add to the difficulty.

 

I guess if you take a risk-based approach, there are more risks to be managed!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, the approach isn't less safe - it's perfectly safe; otherwise the CAA wouldn't allow it.

 

The training is required for two main reasons. Firstly, the procedure for configuring the aircraft (gear, thrust, flap) is different going into LCY and that requires practise as it is 'non standard'. Secondly, the visual perspective of a 5.5 degree approach is significantly different from that of the normal ILS 3 degrees and so that needs getting used to. In turn, this requires a differing technique in thrust control and final round-out. Any pilot going into LCY for the first few times always comments how they feel they are 'hanging in their straps' and I'm sure many of you have felt a similar sensation whilst sat down the back.

 

Qualification usually requires one session in the simulator and thereafter anything up to 12 live landings to earn the tick in the box. Most airlines make the landing at LCY a 'captains only' landing; the company involved in the above video allows co-pilots to land there and, clearly, with the exception of one or 2 incidents they've had at LCY, operate perfectly safely with landings from both seats on the flightdeck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The video was very impressive! Surely, though, Microsoft FS and not real world!?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone remember the halcyon days of yore when you could check not only yourself and luggage but your car also on board the 'plane and fly as far afield as Switzerland?

 

yes !

Img0005.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess if you take a risk-based approach, there are more risks to be managed!

At least it's got an ILS. There are plenty of much more demanding airports with 'inconvenient' terrain and non-precision approaches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone remember the halcyon days of yore when you could check not only yourself and luggage but your car also on board the 'plane and fly as far afield as Switzerland?

 

yes !

Img0005.jpg

The old Bristol Wayfarer - wasn't it one of those that ploughed into Winter Hill?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess if you take a risk-based approach, there are more risks to be managed!

At least it's got an ILS. There are plenty of much more demanding airports with 'inconvenient' terrain and non-precision approaches.

 

Agreed.

 

LCY has a few other features interesting to anoraks (and pilots). The Royal docks were surrounded with cast iron bollards for mooring ships, and when they built the runway and taxiways, they simply cut these off flush with the ground and built on top of the "stumps". As a result, there is a magnetic anomaly right under one of the holding points. This can cause issues, especially when an aircraft is holding at that point when navigational equipment is initialised. This has resulted in aircraft turning onto completely the wrong heading after departure.

 

Also, "level busts" are a special hazard as aircraft are separated from Heathrow traffic by stepped climbs. Failure to understand the cleared level or failure to adhere to it has caused at least one near miss http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Citation%20525,%20D-ITAN%20and%20Boeing%20777%20300ER,%20TC-JJA%2009-10.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BA to take on the London City Route

 

http://airlineroute..../ba-lcyiom-s12/

 

Excellent news, now if only they would run to Manchester or Gatwick (or LHR) then visitors from outside the UK would be properly served.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are only doing it for the slots - which they will then use for other routes after a few months.

 

 

 

Probably.

 

Still, lets not spoil the Airport directrixes best day for quite a long while.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are only doing it for the slots - which they will then use for other routes after a few months.

 

 

 

Probably.

 

Still, lets not spoil the Airport directrixes best day for quite a long while.

 

Hmm - to be honest I doubt it. The biggest pain in my life in recent years has been flying to the rock from Switzerland using two airlines. I've only suffered delays with FlyBe and when they happen it's cost me in financialy and time-wise.

 

Once I return for good it'll be the racket from then on, but I still have a few Island-bound trips to make.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have just seen this on manx radio website, so chuffed with the news, just wondering what the fare will be, as I have family member who works with BA I can get 90% discount woooooohoooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are only doing it for the slots - which they will then use for other routes after a few months.

 

 

 

Probably.

 

Still, lets not spoil the Airport directrixes best day for quite a long while.

You could be right - otherwise, why did they give up flying to the IOM some time ago?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...