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No, all teaching is about utility. If it's not useful what's the point it teaching it?

 

And the utility achieved by teaching history, or literature, or music is what?

 

Really it doesn't matter what language is chosen to be taught at school

 

Agreed, but why Manx? It's dead, why not teach Flat Earth theory, or evolution as fact?

 

Because flat earth theory is pretty comprehensively disproven and there's a difference between teaching something which has less tangible societal and or cultural benefits and teaching outright lies.

 

As an aside, surely evolution is currently pretty much taught as fact?

Edited by VinnieK
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Manx is very important to our understanding of place, history and culture. Teaching it is not a waste. Why are we so dismissive about who we are and where we are from

I studied latin to 0 level, along with German, and did french to A. I did 3 science A's as well. The latin vocabulary is a huge help with Spanish, Catalan, French and Italian when i have travelled. I

You are wrong in that assumption. For the most part it doesnt matter what languages we teach children. The benefits of learning any language are many and well proven, and I won't go into them now. The

You bunch of people you.

 

Manks as a spoken/written and taught language should be held up in the highest esteem.

 

We have a guy from Aus wishing to speak Gaeilc.

He didn't realise he was going to come across so much shit on a forum.

 

If you English speakers wish to dis-assiciate yourselves from us then thats fine, but don't put people off learning the language of Mann

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Manx is very important to our understanding of place, history and culture. Teaching it is not a waste. Why are we so dismissive about who we are and where we are from

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I don't think we should bother. If learning foreign languages is of benefit to young minds in and of itself, why not combine that with something that is also useful. I'd have them learning Chinese, Russian, Spanish or Arabic. The EU Europeans all speak English anyway so why bother (but Spanish gets you South America)

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But then what? The position wasn't contrary enough for you?

That's right. Although neither position is particular contrary.

 

No, all teaching is about utility. If it's not useful what's the point it teaching it?
No, all teaching is about utility. Take history and art at GCSE level, for example. The majority don't make a use of that knowledge. Fewer still go further to use it in any sense like work. Same with lots of subjects. In fact, all subjects are like that to different degrees. And to be honest, if education is all about utility and thus about our productive lives and use of day-to-day skills we would only use it would mirror the common skills and knowledge in the working world and be organised on the common jobs that people end up in. This is fortunately not the case.

 

The point of teaching a broad array of subjects should be obvious. It is so people grow up to understand their world and other people. And it is also about giving people the ability to make a life for themselves.

Quite a lot of French actually, considering I've not been to France since I was 15 and only ever went to 1 in 3 French lessons.
Then I think you have a good flair for languages! Most people who I have spoken to seem to forget most of their learning of languages when they haven't had practice. Though thinking on, many people say the same about maths and history, etc.

 

Agreed, but why Manx? It's dead, why not teach Flat Earth theory, or creationism as fact?
Manx isn't taught alone or as a sole alternative. By mentioning it is dead you are moving back to the issue of utility. Although, in respect of utility, the reason I mentioned that any language would do is because teaching any language primes people for the ability to get their head around picking up a language.

 

One of the reasons given for continuing with Manx is because it offers a facet of Manx identity that without a language is hardly different from that of an English person's. Do you know what I mean? As in, there is little about being Manx that is different to being English. Now there is a scouse-like accent or a few with a proper accent and just the fact that people come from the Island. I am not too bothered by that line of argument, but I like how Manx is still spoken because it makes the place more interesting and makes people more interesting. It does feel like something specific to the Manx is being retained and built up where other things have gone or disappeared.

Manx also tends to bring in a lot of interest from people across the world, which came as a surprise to me. Many people visit and learn about the island through finding out about Manx.

Another is that it helps to understand the ways that Manx people used to see their world and interact with one another, so it has a cultural and historical background. And I think it gives a lot of people a strong attachment to their place.

 

Quite possibly but why should frivolity be state funded?
I think I have answered this. Edited by La_Dolce_Vita
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Perhaps there could be an area of this very forum reserved for Manx speaking (!)

 

(That might finally put mf in a good light with the media and establishment and all those)

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Esperanto is interesting. Do you think that should be taught? If you go by arguments of utility then surely we should get the kids to learn that.

 

Thinking on though, one thing that I think would have been invaluable to learn when attempting to learn other languages is an understanding of what past participles, nominative case, passive tense, perfect tense, etc. are. I was never taught this in English languages. Don't know why. But knowing what they mean helps in picking up a language.

Edited by La_Dolce_Vita
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Manx is very important to our understanding of place, history and culture. Teaching it is not a waste. Why are we so dismissive about who we are and where we are from

Well said John, spot on. If you want to save money on things that have no use whatsoever then I'd say the governor would be a much better place to start. 90K tax free salary, several hundred thousand pound staff costs, multi million pound house - no benefit to the island at all.

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Thinking on though, one thing that I think would have been invaluable to learn when attempting to learn other languages is an understanding of what past participles, nominative case, passive tense, perfect tense, etc. are. I was never taught this in English languages. Don't know why. But knowing what they mean helps in picking up a language.

 

That'd be a vote to bring back Latin then!

 

I did Latin for a couple of years, and even though I remember none of it in terms of the vocabulary or various verb conjugations, I do remember the grammar that came with it.

 

If you're going to pick a dead language to teach our kids, I suggest that Latin is better than Manx.

 

 

ETA - By the way LDV, it's the passive voice of a verb.

Edited by wrighty
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I don't think we should bother. If learning foreign languages is of benefit to young minds in and of itself, why not combine that with something that is also useful. I'd have them learning Chinese, Russian, Spanish or Arabic. The EU Europeans all speak English anyway so why bother (but Spanish gets you South America)

Spanish gets you less than half of South America - there are actually slightly more speakers of Portuguese.

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Perhaps we should concentrate on teaching English properly before buggaring about with Manx. Or isn't that enough fun?

 

I've worked with recently graduated students who can't spell their own name without making a couple of grammatical errors and spelling mistakes.

Edited by Theodolite
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