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Dissolution Of Parliament.


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No, it's not that - it's just that a political system that allows no room for policy formulation & has to put it out to committees of old duffers just defies credulity

 

Yes I agree but it has always been so.

 

The reason people are now so up in arms about it and calling for all sorts of things like dissolution, that will never happen BTW, is because of what I said above IMO. At the end of the day most people couldn't give one, how the country is run, as long as they are OK, now they are not they need to blame someone, its the modern way.

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Mal IMO reform of parliament is more important than dissolution. I notice for example that even basic changes such as Freedom of Information are once again dragging heels.   I have a radical view th

Given we are only 9 months into a 5 year HoK and we have a government of all the talents/national unity and there has been no motion of no confidence passed on what basis would the Lord of Mann's repr

It is not even that bad on the island it you step back and think about it. Why is everyone upset with the current bunch? Mainly because they have had to introduce CUTS, something the island should of

No, it's not that - it's just that a political system that allows no room for policy formulation & has to put it out to committees of old duffers just defies credulity

 

Yes I agree but it has always been so.

 

The reason people are now so up in arms about it and calling for all sorts of things like dissolution, that will never happen BTW, is because of what I said above IMO. At the end of the day most people couldn't give one, how the country is run, as long as they are OK, now they are not they need to blame someone, its the modern way.

 

 

I think most Greeks now give a shit about the political system they are in. Sadly its only when everything turns to shit that people come out fighting. The problem is that with the IOM its turning to shit so slowly its not registering with the average person how bad the incompetence has been over the years. This place is dead you either take action now, or in 3 years time when there is no other viable option.

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I have thought for a long time that there is something wrong with our system of government. It is not stemming directly from our elected representatives but from the departments and civil servants who are free to promote their own agenda's upwards through our MHK's. These are so bogged down in their own departmental politics and constituency matters that some of these crackpot ideas really do get pushed through with very little public outcry!

 

There are several threads currently popping up and down the ranks on here which seem to point the finger at the HoK, whereas at the root of the issue there are ambitious and amateurish Civil Servants who are dreaming up far fetched ideas with little regard for public opinion.

 

We are our own worst enemy, by being ambivalent to some of these issues they get accepted. We really do need a party system or at least a strong party concensus in Tynwald to examine these issues for what they are and either support or oppose them. Individual MHK's can never be expected to be able to disect the complexities and end up voting for something they don't fully understand..

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No, it's not that - it's just that a political system that allows no room for policy formulation & has to put it out to committees of old duffers just defies credulity

 

Yes I agree but it has always been so.

 

The reason people are now so up in arms about it and calling for all sorts of things like dissolution, that will never happen BTW, is because of what I said above IMO. At the end of the day most people couldn't give one, how the country is run, as long as they are OK, now they are not they need to blame someone, its the modern way.

 

 

I think most Greeks now give a shit about the political system they are in. Sadly its only when everything turns to shit that people come out fighting. The problem is that with the IOM its turning to shit so slowly its not registering with the average person how bad the incompetence has been over the years. This place is dead you either take action now, or in 3 years time when there is no other viable option.

 

I agree again Hboy but I am just trying to be realistic, party politics cant be introduced overnight and even if it could what effect would it have, the HOK have very few options available to them to stimulate the economy like QE and pumping our banks full of money to lend as they have in the UK.

 

The MHKs both current and past, mostly the same have lot, SHOULD of made the cuts necessary at the time. Now all I think we can hope for is a turnaround in the UK economy that we can ride its coat tails, as normal.

 

Pitchforks and angry mobs will do nothing apart from maybe increase Saddler's bottom line.blink.png

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I think most Greeks now give a shit about the political system they are in. Sadly its only when everything turns to shit that people come out fighting. The problem is that with the IOM its turning to shit so slowly its not registering with the average person how bad the incompetence has been over the years. This place is dead you either take action now, or in 3 years time when there is no other viable option.

The Greeks have an over paid and overpensioned largely needless Civil Service like us. They aren't bothered because if the money runs out they will be bailed out by Europe. We'll be bailed out by UK, erm won't we.

 

It doesn't really matter because there are so many people over here sucking on the teets of the £Billion reserves, there is nothing to worry about whatsoever for a good few years. Obviously. Because there have been no Civil Service pay-cuts or staff cuts has there, just 'natural wastage' with perfectly fit, healthyand capable people getting the early retirememt package.

 

The Isle of Man is a farcical place these days. Fortunately we have the power of the internet to peep back at what we were saying.

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I think most Greeks now give a shit about the political system they are in. Sadly its only when everything turns to shit that people come out fighting. The problem is that with the IOM its turning to shit so slowly its not registering with the average person how bad the incompetence has been over the years. This place is dead you either take action now, or in 3 years time when there is no other viable option.

The Greeks have an over paid and overpensioned largely needless Civil Service like us. They aren't bothered because if the money runs out they will be bailed out by Europe. We'll be bailed out by UK, erm won't we.

 

It doesn't really matter because there are so many people over here sucking on the teets of the £Billion reserves, there is nothing to worry about whatsoever for a good few years. Obviously. Because there have been no Civil Service pay-cuts or staff cuts has there, just 'natural wastage' with perfectly fit, healthyand capable people getting the early retirememt package.

 

The Isle of Man is a farcical place these days. Fortunately we have the power of the internet to peep back at what we were saying.

 

+ 2. The whole process at the moment disgusts me. Only when it is totally f**ked will we realise that we had an opportunity to change things when it was obvious it was going wrong and nobody admitted it.

 

 

 

 

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I have thought for a long time that there is something wrong with our system of government. It is not stemming directly from our elected representatives but from the departments and civil servants who are free to promote their own agenda's upwards through our MHK's. These are so bogged down in their own departmental politics and constituency matters that some of these crackpot ideas really do get pushed through with very little public outcry!

 

There are several threads currently popping up and down the ranks on here which seem to point the finger at the HoK, whereas at the root of the issue there are ambitious and amateurish Civil Servants who are dreaming up far fetched ideas with little regard for public opinion.

 

I think a lot of that's true, but I suspect when it comes to a lot of the crackpot schemes it's not what you might call the 'true' civil servants that are the real culprits ambitious and amateurish though they may be. If you look at the real disasters - the MEA, the 'Film Industry', the Airport expansion, and so on, they're often driven by semi-outsiders who aren't career civil servants.

 

Of course the lack of skills, experience and willpower in the both civil servants and politicians is what means these schemes actually go ahead and that is where most of the blame lies, but the initial push tends to come from outside. That is why these proposals are so wrong-headed. What they are proposing is setting up lots of MEAs and CineManxs where those in charge can go their own sweet way, but the taxpayer will still be expected to pay for it all and pick up the pieces afterwards.

 

 

We are our own worst enemy, by being ambivalent to some of these issues they get accepted. We really do need a party system or at least a strong party concensus in Tynwald to examine these issues for what they are and either support or oppose them. Individual MHK's can never be expected to be able to disect the complexities and end up voting for something they don't fully understand..

 

Actually I think you're exactly wrong there. The real problem is that we do have 'a strong party consensus in Tynwald' namely the Government Party. There may be no headed notepaper or Party membership but the way it operates within the system is exactly like a political Party would. It's not lack of discipline that's the problem - it's too much.

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Yes Roger that is pretty much what I think,all the representatives are obliged to tow the party line through Ministerial or dept member status.

It is the system of Govt that needs overhauling to get better accountability for the electorate.

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Contra to popular MF belief, we actually have some very good civil servants in high positions on the island, that may well be leading the policy decisions of our elected.

 

What is wrong with that? Its how it works the world over, you cant expect a postman/ banker/ chemist, for example to have intimate knowledge of how a, say, road network is best maintained.

 

The MHKs should be involved in prioritizing the spend of the funds we have, not micro managing that spend.

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I think most Greeks now give a shit about the political system they are in. Sadly its only when everything turns to shit that people come out fighting. The problem is that with the IOM its turning to shit so slowly its not registering with the average person how bad the incompetence has been over the years. This place is dead you either take action now, or in 3 years time when there is no other viable option.

The Greeks have an over paid and overpensioned largely needless Civil Service like us. They aren't bothered because if the money runs out they will be bailed out by Europe. We'll be bailed out by UK, erm won't we.

 

It doesn't really matter because there are so many people over here sucking on the teets of the £Billion reserves, there is nothing to worry about whatsoever for a good few years. Obviously. Because there have been no Civil Service pay-cuts or staff cuts has there, just 'natural wastage' with perfectly fit, healthyand capable people getting the early retirememt package.

 

The Isle of Man is a farcical place these days. Fortunately we have the power of the internet to peep back at what we were saying.

 

+ 2. The whole process at the moment disgusts me. Only when it is totally f**ked will we realise that we had an opportunity to change things when it was obvious it was going wrong and nobody admitted it.

 

So what do we do about it? From all I can see there is only the Positive Action Group who have any energy to attempt to do anything, the rest gripe on manxforums whilst playing good citizens once they log off.

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Contra to popular MF belief, we actually have some very good civil servants in high positions on the island, that may well be leading the policy decisions of our elected.

 

What is wrong with that? Its how it works the world over, you cant expect a postman/ banker/ chemist, for example to have intimate knowledge of how a, say, road network is best maintained.

 

The MHKs should be involved in prioritizing the spend of the funds we have, not micro managing that spend.

Contra to popular MF belief, we actually have some very good civil servants in high positions on the island, that may well be leading the policy decisions of our elected.

 

What is wrong with that? Its how it works the world over, you cant expect a postman/ banker/ chemist, for example to have intimate knowledge of how a, say, road network is best maintained.

 

The MHKs should be involved in prioritizing the spend of the funds we have, not micro managing that spend.

 

I agree with that, & it's the only reason I'm not opposing this film thing

 

The Chief Minister should - in his consultation with the people over the 'scope' saga - look to establishing some sort of policy forum

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