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Doi To Push On With Douglas Prom Work


Lisenchuk
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With a bit of luck they will tarmac over those feckin tram lines

All a bit out of date now - 'Harris Prom', 'Loch Prom' etc.

 

Might I suggest we bury a couple of people under the new road - and rename sections such as 'Henderson Prom', 'Karran Prom'. Maybe we could also rename the other side of the 'new' Prom 'The Bell End'?

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What ever the budget is they should double it at least... the prom is virtually all on reclaimed land and I'd be very surprised if the foundation material hasn't shifted over the years and also needs replacing.

Although this may be true in places, the subterranian part is generally ok. It is the effect of countless bits of patchwork, add-hoc roadworks and general repairs that are the problem. All it needs is the top removing and replacing to get it to 90% perfect (so best road on the Island) and last another 30 years before chippings, etc.

 

In most places the road can easily be three lanes + wide so it would be easy to shut one lane at a time as described earlier. The horse trams should remain in the middle but as a single track with a couple of passing places as with the train. That would also make them much easier to maintain. The whole thing could be done in 3 months over the winter. Ok this is IOM - 6 months over the winter. Any more is a piss take like Richmond Hill and Gawnes Folly. Bound to happen then!

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If you look closely, it's many a cable trench that has done most of her in. Part of the cost of digitising the island etc. over the last 30 years.

 

Let's make MT pay for some of it, which would be a fair use of some of the line rental money they have collected over that period IMO.

 

If they don't redo it properly, and allow for all these cable runs, it'll get the same in another 20 years.

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Put it out to tender - and obtain prices and timescales. If it costs less than the cost of the DOI doing it - award the contract.

 

Simples.

 

This is the first major test for 'scope of government', and should not be a winter work scheme paying well over the £££odds.

 

 

This should be put out to tender as I am sure that the cost and time has been over inflated by the DOI to justify their existence for the next few years.

I am sure their are local contractors that are more than able to carry out this work either on their own or with one or two other local sub contractors.

If they can do it cheaper, quicker and to the same or a higher standard then that should be the way forward.

There would be nothing to stop the DOI also tendering and seeing if they can compete on a like for like basis with the private sector, as for years we have heard from Government that there pay increases to staff are to match those offered by private sector companies

 

.

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I think for the DOI to tender, there would have to be an independent omsbudsman to monitor the bid process. Assessing bids requires expertise and is costly though, so more for the omsbudsman to ensure the process was not corrupt, was fair and was a level playing field on a like-for-like cost basis.

 

I think a team of Omsbudsmen would be eventually essential, as more and more government services go to tender. To ensure that value for money for the public was being obtained.

 

But I reiterate, omsbudsman' independence from government is key.

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The DOI already operates a system where the DOI is the customer and the DOI has to tender for the work to its own department in the room next door, so having to put it out to tender already exists for projects like this. The last thing we need to is some fly by night bunch of Micks coming over with millions of tons of tarmac, imagine the amount of driveways in Douglas that would get done at the same time.

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The DOI already operates a system where the DOI is the customer and the DOI has to tender for the work to its own department in the room next door, so having to put it out to tender already exists for projects like this. The last thing we need to is some fly by night bunch of Micks coming over with millions of tons of tarmac, imagine the amount of driveways in Douglas that would get done at the same time.

A decent tendering process would suss that lot out very quickly. There would be certain restrictions on those allowed to apply for each tender e.g. company turnover, experience etc. etc.

 

You can't just do these things for the lowest price. It is a combination of quality, price, experience and references that need to be assessed IMO.

 

ETA: Anyhoo - going by the state of our roads - what quality and value for money on or off the TT course have the DOI provided over the years? I rather a bunch of Micks than a bunch of Dicks

Edited by Albert Tatlock
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Unfortunately Max Power, while it would seem to be cheaper to use your own workforce in reality the true cost to the Tax Payer of having a directly employed workforce if far greater.

A private business has to cover all its costs plus hopefully generate a small profit to generate growth or repay those who have invested in it.

While the DOI employees hourly rate they get paid for actually doing the work on the ground may be a small cost say £8 - £10 an hour , when you add the other costs of 30 days holidays, sick pay, training , excessive amounts of vehicles management, administration and HR plus enhanced pay rates for overtime and unsocial hours, then the cost could be increase per hour by a factor of three, four or even more, it would be interesting to know what the DOI charge their employees out at to other government departments and if when they do charge they cover all their costs.

A private company will usually undercut this by using all its resources fully not having them standing idle for long periods of time or sat in depots whether it is plant or manpower

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Unfortunately Max Power, while it would seem to be cheaper to use your own workforce in reality the true cost to the Tax Payer of having a directly employed workforce if far greater.

A private business has to cover all its costs plus hopefully generate a small profit to generate growth or repay those who have invested in it.

While the DOI employees hourly rate they get paid for actually doing the work on the ground may be a small cost say £8 - £10 an hour , when you add the other costs of 30 days holidays, sick pay, training , excessive amounts of vehicles management, administration and HR plus enhanced pay rates for overtime and unsocial hours, then the cost could be increase per hour by a factor of three, four or even more, it would be interesting to know what the DOI charge their employees out at to other government departments and if when they do charge they cover all their costs.

A private company will usually undercut this by using all its resources fully not having them standing idle for long periods of time or sat in depots whether it is plant or manpower

You forgot the final salary pensions.

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The DOI already operates a system where the DOI is the customer and the DOI has to tender for the work to its own department in the room next door, so having to put it out to tender already exists for projects like this. The last thing we need to is some fly by night bunch of Micks coming over with millions of tons of tarmac, imagine the amount of driveways in Douglas that would get done at the same time.

A decent tendering process would suss that lot out very quickly. There would be certain restrictions on those allowed to apply for each tender e.g. company turnover, experience etc. etc.

 

You can't just do these things for the lowest price. It is a combination of quality, price, experience and references that need to be assessed IMO.

 

ETA: Anyhoo - going by the state of our roads - what quality and value for money on or off the TT course have the DOI provided over the years? I rather a bunch of Micks than a bunch of Dicks

 

There are already very strict tendering processes in place that are overseen by independent persons. As for not taking the lowest price I agree but in reality just about every single government funded works goes to the lowest price, its up to the supervisors then to ensure that the works are carried out to the standard of workmanship required.

 

I was told on good authority that the prom is mostly asphalt laid on concrete slabs, these slabs are the problem because in many cases they have cracked or their structural integrity has been compromised by later excavations through them.

 

I dont know what the are planning on putting down for the new surface but I would hope it is going to be the same concrete slab and asphalt or tarmac overlay. It has lasted a long time so would likely last a long time again. The only trouble with this is the cost and as we pay a huge amount more than other places in the UK for ready mixed concrete I dont know what we can do about that.

 

I was shocked the other week when I had 2m3 of concrete delivered to my house for a shed base and it cost me 168 quid a m3, looking on the web a similar mix in the UK is about 120 quid a m3 (both prices including VAT) Anyone know why it is so expensive on the island?

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