Govt Promotes Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles -

[Manx1Bloke]

Laurence Skelly MHK, Department of Economic Development with responsibility for Energy Policy commented:

This is a great opportunity to promote the clean tech sector. The Isle of Man has the opportunity to produce significant quantities of renewable energy which exceed our own requirements and this excess energy is required to be either transported or stored. The Island has already been trialling storage using electric vehicle technology in TT Zero and now we have another option to use hydrogen fuel to assist us in our endeavour to cut costs and become more sustainable in the future.’

http://www.gov.im/lib/news/transport/isleofmanhydroge.xml

 

Is this a waste of time and energy by IOM Govt?

 

The US Dept of Energy say about hydrogen fuel:-

 

Cost - The Primary Hurdle

Although natural gas will likely provide the earliest affordable feedstock for hydrogen, today's costs are prohibitively expensive. The cost of producing and delivering hydrogen from a small scale reformer of natural gas for a fuel cell vehicle could be as high as $40 per million BTUs with today's technology.

This would make hydrogen about four times as expensive as gasoline at the pump untaxed.

http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/fuels/hydrogen/currenttechnology.html

[hagar the horrible]

 

Laurence Skelly MHK, Department of Economic Development with responsibility for Energy Policy commented:

This is a great opportunity to promote the clean tech sector. The Isle of Man has the opportunity to produce significant quantities of renewable energy which exceed our own requirements and this excess energy is required to be either transported or stored. The Island has already been trialling storage using electric vehicle technology in TT Zero and now we have another option to use hydrogen fuel to assist us in our endeavour to cut costs and become more sustainable in the future.’

http://www.gov.im/li...fmanhydroge.xml

 

Is this a waste of time and energy by IOM Govt?

 

The US Dept of Energy say about hydrogen fuel:-

 

Cost - The Primary Hurdle

Although natural gas will likely provide the earliest affordable feedstock for hydrogen, today's costs are prohibitively expensive. The cost of producing and delivering hydrogen from a small scale reformer of natural gas for a fuel cell vehicle could be as high as $40 per million BTUs with today's technology.

This would make hydrogen about four times as expensive as gasoline at the pump untaxed.

http://www.fossil.en...technology.html

 

Pipe dream.

[Blade Runner]

Might be worth doing, if they have excess capacity, that they cant do anything else with.

 

I think the electricity used to make the Hydrogen would be sort of be free? so it may be a viable use. Not sure though, we need a electrical engineer to make informed comment.

[Manx1Bloke]

using the uranium mined from Stoney Mountain the IOM's nuclear reactor will be able to provide enough electricity to crack sea water to produce the necessary hydrogen quantities the IOM needs to use as fuel for all the vehicles here - alternatively the new 300 turbine offshore wind farm off Jurby Head could be used to provide the necessary electrical power. Using the multiplier effect of buying local produce etc the scheme may eventually pay for itself.

 

http://www.altenergymag.com/emagazine.php?issue_number=06.04.01&article=hydrogen

[gazza]

That explains the white english reg transit i seen today with the words hydrogen written in blue over it. !!!

[IOMRS97]

I looked at all the alternative fuels when I decided to go for zero emissions towards the end of last year. I settled on 100% electric and have been completely satisfied with the result. The infrastructure is already in place for EVs and the MEA do a special off-peak tariff. And no, you don't have to get out of bed at midnight to switch it on!

[RC-Drift.com]

hydrogen from a small scale reformer of natural gas for a fuel cell vehicle could be as high as $40 per million BTUs with today's technology.

That's 293 KW

[Patrick]

"This would make hydrogen about four times as expensive as gasoline at the pump untaxed."

Begs the questions, how much is 'gasoline' in the US and how much tax do they put on?

Could actually work out cheaper here.

[Lisenchuk]

Producing hydrogen by the process of electrical hydrolysis is a far less efficient use of the primary electrical energy than charging an electric car,so why bother doing this.

[irishwasa]

In May this year, Kwik Trip opened their first CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) pump on their forecourt in Wisconsin, USA. The gas is compressed on site using a 'CNG in a box' stand alone unit developed by GE, and the vehicle is filled at a normal looking pump dispenser. This means any filling station with access to a natural gas line can install their own kit and sell CNG. GE reckon to roll out more than 250 of these over the next few months with one fuel supplier alone, and GE is big enough to make these projects a reality.

It was on sale at 1.67 USD per gallon, compared with near 4.00 USD per gallon for regular petrol, so there is considerable margins to play with.

 

Trouble is, we'd pay to convert our vehicles to use gas, start running around cheaply, and then the government would tax it up to the max. Look what happened to Diesel once it became popular in cars - it used to be loads cheaper than petrol, but not now.

[JSlot]

hydrogen from a small scale reformer of natural gas for a fuel cell vehicle could be as high as $40 per million BTUs with today's technology.

That's 293 KW

 

Sorry to do this but I'm a bit of a unit correction freak.

 

A BTU is a unit of energy and a KW is a unit of power. It's 293 KWh. For comparison petrol is about 10KWh per litre.

[StuartT]

Surely it would be far more cost effective to invest in electric railways rather than in hydrogen fuel cells for road vehicles if the Island wants a sustainable transport system?....

[jonnyrotten]

We're overlooking one or two things here.

 

First, hydrogen may not be the magic bullet. It's very inefficient (there's about 60 per cent more hydrogen in petrol than there is in compressed liquid hydrogen). Second, it needs to be carefully stored at VERY low temperatures and/or VERY high pressure (typically about 500bar).

 

There's also no means of distribution. The idea that we can all pull into the layby at Braddan and top up out of the back of a white Transit is clearly ludicrous. The idea that the Government will allow everyone to make untold amounts of the stuff at home without the ability to tax it at source is equally incredible.

 

And there is no possibility whatsoever that oil companies who have invested hugely in their own highly profitable energy sources and distribution network will allow any part of that system to provide hydrogen until they have extracted the last cent of profit from their existing resource. Because of the tax issue, we can expect governments and oil companies to collude in this.

 

In short, the strength and overwhelming greed of oil companies and governments will ensure there can be no magic bullet solution, hydrogen or otherwise, unless and until they can maintain and improve existing revenue streams.

 

The technology is irrelevant.

[StuartT]

We're overlooking one or two things here.

 

First, hydrogen may not be the magic bullet. It's very inefficient (there's about 60 per cent more hydrogen in petrol than there is in compressed liquid hydrogen). Second, it needs to be carefully stored at VERY low temperatures and/or VERY high pressure (typically about 500bar).

 

There's also no means of distribution. The idea that we can all pull into the layby at Braddan and top up out of the back of a white Transit is clearly ludicrous. The idea that the Government will allow everyone to make untold amounts of the stuff at home without the ability to tax it at source is equally incredible.

 

And there is no possibility whatsoever that oil companies who have invested hugely in their own highly profitable energy sources and distribution network will allow any part of that system to provide hydrogen until they have extracted the last cent of profit from their existing resource. Because of the tax issue, we can expect governments and oil companies to collude in this.

 

In short, the strength and overwhelming greed of oil companies and governments will ensure there can be no magic bullet solution, hydrogen or otherwise, unless and until they can maintain and improve existing revenue streams.

 

The technology is irrelevant.

 

That's sadly probably very true. Indeed in the 50's and 60's many of Britain's well established street tramways which were already starting to evolve into a modern infrastructure (newer trams, track reservations in the middle of Dual Carriageways, some subway running in place/planned in city centres), and the Railway infrastructure (including some electrified lines) were either closed (or in the case of a few electrified lines de-electrified) at the behest of senior officials in the government and town councils. Many of these same officials held shares in the petrol industry and as they already owned cars were not the ones most effected by the unpopular decisions they made.....

 

Now we've been left with a situation where there is few alternatives left to the internal combustion engine and the massive cost required to reinstate infrastructure which ironically (in the case of Britain's Street Tramways) still remains beneath the streets but will require massive replacement works due to underuse. All to make some long dead idiots very rich....

[Lisenchuk]

Conspicuous by its absence is the lack of any public presentation by this organisation to demonstrate how viable this proposal is for the Island.

I wonder what the 4 MHK's in the photograph are going to tell us about the technology demonstrated to them.

http://www.manxradio...d.aspx?id=60386

EDITED TO ADD

I wonder if any of the 4 MHK's in picture saw fit to invite any representatives of Isle of Man Friends of The Earth or other Environmental groups.

I would think that they would be only to happy to promote a viable green technology if it had any credibility.

Edited July 1, 2012 by Lisenchuk