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Minister For Social Care Launches A National Debate On Social Policy

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I don't know about anyone else but i'd gladly pay 5p on income tax if it meant maintaining our current standards.

 

Think 30p minimum

 

30p is fine by me...

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I don't know about anyone else but i'd gladly pay 5p on income tax if it meant maintaining our current standards.

Including a bloated and overpaid Civil Service?

 

Gr-rrranted! They've got to thin out from the top down. Like most of us, i am sickened by the levels of middle and higher management. Alas, making these people redundant would be mightily expensive. Hence the moves afoot to try and reduce the redundancy payments from 1 month per year of service to 1 week.

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In reply to Manshimajin

 

I have said many times in public that I was angry with the previous administration for not 'getting a grip' when they must have known they should have done.

 

Turning to your point about me acting in isolation. Again I have said that modernising social policy to make it fit for purpose is one of a number of actions that will need to be taken. The last time I said this was in my July 2012 www.manx.net/tv interview with Paul Moulton (it is in two parts). It will take a number of core projects to overcome our current account imbalance and these will have to compliment each other and will only succeed if they are seen to be fair and balanced.

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It seems to me that you are not afraid to 'sort things out' Chis, but wasted in Social Care.

 

I imagine Alan Bell, the Council of Ministers and the deeper establishment see you as a dangerous man to their (erstwhile) very lucrative gravy train.

 

Your energies have been put out to Social Care. Not necessarily to provide better social care for the Island but to swing the axe, Maggie Thatcher style (note, I fully appreciate that there needs to be cost savings first in order to provide better social care).

 

Ever feel like a patsy?

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Mr Robertshaw is nobodys' patsy. Aside from Mr Cannan, he's probably the only member with the moral courage to realise that issues have to be addressed now

 

It's quite correct that these shouldn't be addressed in isolation (to which Mr Robertshaw agreed on a recent radio appearance)

 

We need a Chief Minister with the ability to get things moving rather than procrastinate

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Mr Robertshaw is nobodys' patsy. Aside from Mr Cannan, he's probably the only member with the moral courage to realise that issues have to be addressed now

 

I'm not sure I agree. Endorsing so flimsy and leading a consultation document loaded with plenty of suggestion and insinuation but providing very little in the way of objective analysis or even decent answers doesn't speak of a massive amount of 'moral courage'.

 

Robertshaw talks a good game, and did a decent enough job of holding the Government to account (by Tynwald's standards) when not a minister, but moral courage?

 

As bitchy as that sounds, there's no real disrespect towards Robertshaw intended. I just for the life of me can't see where this view of him as the great new hope for the Island has come from, and that troubles me because I can remember how so many people were talking about Bell in very similar terms before he became Chief Minister (and contrary to all available evidence).

 

As mentioned above, Robertshaw has a knack for presentation and certainly posesses belief in himself. However, scratching the surface has rarely seemed to actually turn up that much in the way of substance or concrete answers. As far as I can recall, Chris's repertoire has only really consisted of

  • a slightly barmy (given the time and circumstance) integrated transport idea
  • a bit about boosting tourism
  • abolishing the Department of Social Care (an idea that I assume is now on permanent hiatus)
  • endorsing the FOI and elected LegCo/CM bandwagon

Other than that and a few vague statements, all I sense from him is a knack for saying exactly what people want to hear in a way that makes it sound like a new idea, without committing or even giving and indication that he knows how they would be accomplished (which is precisely Bell's one greatest talent). Now that's not as much a criticism as it may sound: I don't doubt that he believes what he says, and the presentation thing is just par for the course in politics. That said, there's little approaching a grand strategy or a mastery of the details, or an indication of this moral courage or even a great ability to think much deeper than the surface issues (and that includes via his contributions on these forums).

 

That's not to say that he doesn't have these qualities. Only time will tell on that score, but I just can't see the reason so many people have decided that he does and I am worried that we're falling into exactly the same trap we always fall into, as we did with Bell, Liberal Vannin, and so on, of uncritically lauding anyone who happens to put on a good show of saying what sounds like the right things in a half competant way.

Edited by VinnieK

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We need a Chief Minister with the ability to get things moving rather than procrastinate

 

You need a leader with a clear idea of what needs to be done and who then get's on and does it regardless of their future electability.

 

Cue Private Frazer....

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Any trith n the rumour

ATOS have already signed up with IOM gov/DSC for the PIP contract

 

as in uk

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Any trith n the rumour

ATOS have already signed up with IOM gov/DSC for the PIP contract

 

as in uk

 

It might be true and also make sense...Some of the Benefits relating to physical capacity are reciprocal and so presumably the testing has to be reciprocal if the reciprocal agreement is to survive and remain compatible both sides of the water?....Just a thought....

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In Reply to Chris Robertshaw

 

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately I am not able to access the web link you have included so my comments may be answered there - my apologies if they are:

  • What are the other core projects you see as overcoming the current account balance?
  • How do these relate to one another?
  • How well progressed are the other core projects - particularly if they are linked together?
  • Are you satisfied that the 'Government of National Unity' has a proper future vision which it is implementing effectively and on time - is another 5 years per Eddie Teare's previous statements acceptable?
  • To what extent should we continue to use the Reserves to make up the deficit?
  • Do you believe that a wide-ranging FOI (including CoMin) would assist in opening up political and PS accountability?
  • Given that so many countries operate very effectively with a unicameral parliament is radical political overhaul part of the core you mention?
  • Why do you think Eddie Teare has recently said that there is 'no political appetitie' for major change?

I have no doubt that benefit reform, amongs others, is necessary - but I think some of the comments from your Department have been hysterical rather than sensible - for example saying that costs have "rocketed" when they have increased at the rate of inflation despite growing unemployment and an ageing population is a fine example of political 'spin' and the use of emotive language rather than straight talking.

 

I equally think that the current wider debate is focussed on expenses rather than including the revenue side of the equation. I know from extensive commercial experience that you cannot look at one without looking at both.

 

If we are not willing to discuss and act on revenue raising then I cannot see any way of reducing the large government expense overrun without including some contribution from those well enough off to pay for themselves to no longer receive state benefits such as pensions, child allowances and health care. The reality is that we have encouraged a society with "champagen tastes and ginger beer pockets".

 

At some point you have to live within your means or increase your means.

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As mentioned above, Robertshaw has a knack for presentation and certainly posesses belief in himself. However, scratching the surface has rarely seemed to actually turn up that much in the way of substance or concrete answers. As far as I can recall, Chris's repertoire has only really consisted of

  • a slightly barmy (given the time and circumstance) integrated transport idea
  • a bit about boosting tourism
  • abolishing the Department of Social Care (an idea that I assume is now on permanent hiatus)
  • endorsing the FOI and elected LegCo/CM bandwagon

VinnieK I have to go out so have not had a chance to peruse this but this is a link to Chris's election manifesto for information - http://www.chrisrobertshaw.com/attachments/article/72/Chris%20Robertshaw%20manifesto.pdf

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Markwell House....the next Lourdes?....

 

I think the Department has already and some time ago now been inviting people in for reassessment as to Benefits...

 

Apparently many of them are subject to remarkable miracle cures!

 

They excuse themselves and sign off!

 

If they bring in ATOS group and do whatever then there should be a fence made of crutches outside Markwell House...

 

From what I have seen of it these ATOS tests are a bit like dancing the "Hokey Cokey"...

 

Left leg in...left leg out....in...out...in...out...shake it all about".....and turn around...That's what it's all about!"

 

If you can use just one digit one one hand they say you are fit as the test is not so much incapacity but capacity ie what can you actually do rather than what you can't do...

 

Reminds of my time with Strand Cleaners in 1998....One woman called in saying she had gastro-enteritis and was off sick....The manager's response was "That's OK! No problem! Come in as normal and you can just stick to cleaning the toilets.....Problem solved!...”

 

Apparently these ATOS capacity for work tests are a bit like that.

 

As we all know, the Isle of Man has some Olympic standard cripples!...and many of them are ale tanks!

 

 

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A bit like the doctor

green they use currently

 

40 mins max a visit

Edited by fred w
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Mr Robertshaw is nobodys' patsy. Aside from Mr Cannan, he's probably the only member with the moral courage to realise that issues have to be addressed now

 

I'm not sure I agree. Endorsing so flimsy and leading a consultation document loaded with plenty of suggestion and insinuation but providing very little in the way of objective analysis or even decent answers doesn't speak of a massive amount of 'moral courage'.

 

Robertshaw talks a good game, and did a decent enough job of holding the Government to account (by Tynwald's standards) when not a minister, but moral courage?

 

As bitchy as that sounds, there's no real disrespect towards Robertshaw intended. I just for the life of me can't see where this view of him as the great new hope for the Island has come from, and that troubles me because I can remember how so many people were talking about Bell in very similar terms before he became Chief Minister (and contrary to all available evidence).

 

As mentioned above, Robertshaw has a knack for presentation and certainly posesses belief in himself. However, scratching the surface has rarely seemed to actually turn up that much in the way of substance or concrete answers. As far as I can recall, Chris's repertoire has only really consisted of

  • a slightly barmy (given the time and circumstance) integrated transport idea
  • a bit about boosting tourism
  • abolishing the Department of Social Care (an idea that I assume is now on permanent hiatus)
  • endorsing the FOI and elected LegCo/CM bandwagon

Other than that and a few vague statements, all I sense from him is a knack for saying exactly what people want to hear in a way that makes it sound like a new idea, without committing or even giving and indication that he knows how they would be accomplished (which is precisely Bell's one greatest talent). Now that's not as much a criticism as it may sound: I don't doubt that he believes what he says, and the presentation thing is just par for the course in politics. That said, there's little approaching a grand strategy or a mastery of the details, or an indication of this moral courage or even a great ability to think much deeper than the surface issues (and that includes via his contributions on these forums).

 

That's not to say that he doesn't have these qualities. Only time will tell on that score, but I just can't see the reason so many people have decided that he does and I am worried that we're falling into exactly the same trap we always fall into, as we did with Bell, Liberal Vannin, and so on, of uncritically lauding anyone who happens to put on a good show of saying what sounds like the right things in a half competant way.

 

 

Perhaps it's because we know him, whereas you seem to be critical from afar

 

You're our very own David Starkey, the preening ponce of Manx Forums

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