Jump to content

Gatwick Route By Easyjet


Manx1Bloke
 Share

Recommended Posts

I agree that there isn't an excuse for not making a crew available and not re routing people on cancelled planes. It's why eu261 is so important and has to be at realistic levels - to persuade the airlines that it is in their best interests to honour their timetable and bookings.

 

But it's a timely reminder to make sure you have adequate insurance for cancellation, delay and missed connections

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nellie I don't agree that the IoM situation is down to open skies at all.

It's down to airlines and airports wanting to maximise load factors and income.

They don't want small regional planes flying into Gatwick or Heathrow. The bigger boys want to gain access, so they buy up the likes of Manx airlines to get their slots, or like Flybe they pursue an unsustainable business plan and sell their slots to the highest bidder.

It's all well and good saying that we have to have a robust plan but none of Gawne, Black, Reynolds & Co have any control over what happens at Gatwick or Heathrow.

But John, Open Skies has meant that IOMG has no control over pretty much any aspect of the air services. I am not a fan of wholesale regulation and intervention, but some measure of 'light touch' influence to ensure the right mix of frequency, fare mix and corporate responsibility would surely make sense.

 

Overall, it is hard to see that Open Skies has delivered much. Many unsustainable, and in some cases, stupid routes, have come and gone, and the network looks much the same as it did ten or twenty years ago.

 

I know that IOMG can't influence the business models at Gatwick or Heathrow, so perhaps the best option for the Island, when easyJet do disappear, is a better balanced service, with the right sized aircraft to Stansted or Luton. I know they aren't the greatest airports, but perhaps they are in our league, if our leaders are honest with themselves?

Edited by Nellie
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Today's easyjet to liverpool EZY636 which was due to depart at 1650 has a new estimated time of 2100!!!.

The inbound flight arrived on time, but clearly 'went tech' while on the ground here. It looks like they plan to fly an engineer on their flight from Gatwick which itself is an hour late, so I'd doubt it will be going anywhere before 22.00, if at all. Another bad day at the office, for our friends in orange.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The instability is totally unrelated to open skies. It's to do with the market, number of passengers, etc. Too many competitors chasing too few passengers on too many routes.

 

That happened all through the 1960's and 1970's as well. We had dozens of operators come and go, short lived routes. The two major operators recognised the real problems and merged to form Manx Airlines with HQ and hub here.

 

That heralded a 20 year period of relative stability with frequent reliable services on essential routes.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The instability is totally unrelated to open skies. It's to do with the market, number of passengers, etc. Too many competitors chasing too few passengers on too many routes.

That happened all through the 1960's and 1970's as well. We had dozens of operators come and go, short lived routes. The two major operators recognised the real problems and merged to form Manx Airlines with HQ and hub here.

That heralded a 20 year period of relative stability with frequent reliable services on essential routes.

Yes it did and, if you'll forgive the appalling pun, with sky-high fares.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The instability is totally unrelated to open skies. It's to do with the market, number of passengers, etc. Too many competitors chasing too few passengers on too many routes.

That happened all through the 1960's and 1970's as well. We had dozens of operators come and go, short lived routes. The two major operators recognised the real problems and merged to form Manx Airlines with HQ and hub here.

That heralded a 20 year period of relative stability with frequent reliable services on essential routes.

Sorry John, but you are not correct. Open skies is part of the problem. According to the airport website, there are almost record numbers of passengers flying to/from the IOM and the route network is much what it was ten, twenty, thirty years ago, so the instability is not caused by too few passengers, or too many routes.

 

But open skies allows easyJet to run a schedule which suits only them. So we have no flights to London on a Satuday, only one flight a day for much of the week, and that flight regularly arriving in London at midnight. Throw in terrible customer service, and the authorities here can do nothing about it. The airport said months ago there would be a lack of capacity to London this summer, and Travelwatch endorsed that view, although you did not need to be a genius to work it out. If we had some modest intervention with IOMG setting a few standards on number of seats, frequency, fares mix and punctuality etc., easyJet would need to comply or make way. That is what we are missing, at the moment.

 

As a little aside, I wonder if easyJet are paying the requisite fees, every time the airport has to stay open after 22.00, to accommodate their delays?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nellie. If easyJet pull out who is going to take their place. Who has spare slots at Gatwick. If IoM imposes a user agreement would easyJet or anyone else stay?

 

The irony is that on sea route threads everyone wants an open seas/ link span situation because of potential low fares. And on an airline thread no one wants open skies and wants a user agreement type arrangement.

 

But as Uhtred says, regulated air travel delivered sky high fares.

 

There is nothing to stop other airlines flying to Stansted, Luton, Southend. They could, but don't. Why?

 

Don't know where you get the "record number of passengers from" numbers are still below their all time high. Population is 30% up on 1980 and outside the IoM market air travel has tripled. We've stood still in reality, even with reduced fares. In fact, after factoring in population growth we've gone backwards.

 

That easyJet offers a poor service is wholly unrelated to open skies.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That easyJet offers a poor service is wholly unrelated to open skies.

 

The poor service from Easyjet I agree is nothing to do with the open skies policy but the fact they are here is. The gene is now out of the bottle but I and others argued at the time that to prevent the current position happening where a cheap airline flies in once a day to hover up enough passengers to make it uneconomical for others to operate the same route on a more frequent basis it could have been made a requirement that to operate certain routes minimum service levels have to be operated. e.g. on the Liverpool or London routes that there has to be a daily return flight before a certain time and after a certain time. You can still basically have an open skies policy just with service requirements on certain routes.

 

The Island may then not have lost Flybe as when they cut the base here one of the criteria was the number of aircraft/flights/routes operated from a base. I cannot remember now quite which. With no Easyjet here Flybe would probably not have already pulled services back and the Island may have been outside the criteria for the later cuts.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

The instability is totally unrelated to open skies. It's to do with the market, number of passengers, etc. Too many competitors chasing too few passengers on too many routes.

That happened all through the 1960's and 1970's as well. We had dozens of operators come and go, short lived routes. The two major operators recognised the real problems and merged to form Manx Airlines with HQ and hub here.

That heralded a 20 year period of relative stability with frequent reliable services on essential routes.

Sorry John, but you are not correct. Open skies is part of the problem. According to the airport website, there are almost record numbers of passengers flying to/from the IOM and the route network is much what it was ten, twenty, thirty years ago, so the instability is not caused by too few passengers, or too many routes.

 

But open skies allows easyJet to run a schedule which suits only them. So we have no flights to London on a Satuday, only one flight a day for much of the week, and that flight regularly arriving in London at midnight. Throw in terrible customer service, and the authorities here can do nothing about it. The airport said months ago there would be a lack of capacity to London this summer, and Travelwatch endorsed that view, although you did not need to be a genius to work it out. If we had some modest intervention with IOMG setting a few standards on number of seats, frequency, fares mix and punctuality etc., easyJet would need to comply or make way. That is what we are missing, at the moment.

 

As a little aside, I wonder if easyJet are paying the requisite fees, every time the airport has to stay open after 22.00, to accommodate their delays?

 

 

A few weeks ago Easyjet landed here with an aircraft full of passengers and no luggage at all. The reason the luggage was not loaded at I believe Gatwick, was that the aircraft would have arrived after airport published hours and Easyjet were not prepared to pay the late opening fees ! Easy jet are now starting to cancel due to weather and runway length in the IOM, a senior source opines that in truth the issue is more to do with our crap lighting rather than runway length, however Easy know that to complain about the lighting could mean we can undertake a relatively low cost and easy fix, however to comment on short runway ( which it isn't) may be the beginning of the end ! watch this space. The level of service from a bulk low cost carrier was predicted of course in the alternative independent report into airport operations in 2006 which was dismissed by that intellectual colossus Tony Brown as merely an academic view ! ( As opposed to a paid consultants endorsement of our grandiose gold plated plans leading to close on 2 million passengers a year by now) !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

That easyJet offers a poor service is wholly unrelated to open skies.

 

The poor service from Easyjet I agree is nothing to do with the open skies policy but the fact they are here is. The gene is now out of the bottle but I and others argued at the time that to prevent the current position happening where a cheap airline flies in once a day to hover up enough passengers to make it uneconomical for others to operate the same route on a more frequent basis it could have been made a requirement that to operate certain routes minimum service levels have to be operated. e.g. on the Liverpool or London routes that there has to be a daily return flight before a certain time and after a certain time. You can still basically have an open skies policy just with service requirements on certain routes.

 

The Island may then not have lost Flybe as when they cut the base here one of the criteria was the number of aircraft/flights/routes operated from a base. I cannot remember now quite which. With no Easyjet here Flybe would probably not have already pulled services back and the Island may have been outside the criteria for the later cuts.

We'd have lost Flybe to Gatwick. They sold their slots to survive. They had no loyalty to IoM. The only airline that did was Manx. But at the end it's only value was the Heathrow slots.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

That easyJet offers a poor service is wholly unrelated to open skies.

The poor service from Easyjet I agree is nothing to do with the open skies policy but the fact they are here is. The gene is now out of the bottle but I and others argued at the time that to prevent the current position happening where a cheap airline flies in once a day to hover up enough passengers to make it uneconomical for others to operate the same route on a more frequent basis it could have been made a requirement that to operate certain routes minimum service levels have to be operated. e.g. on the Liverpool or London routes that there has to be a daily return flight before a certain time and after a certain time. You can still basically have an open skies policy just with service requirements on certain routes.

 

The Island may then not have lost Flybe as when they cut the base here one of the criteria was the number of aircraft/flights/routes operated from a base. I cannot remember now quite which. With no Easyjet here Flybe would probably not have already pulled services back and the Island may have been outside the criteria for the later cuts.

We'd have lost Flybe to Gatwick. They sold their slots to survive. They had no loyalty to IoM. The only airline that did was Manx. But at the end it's only value was the Heathrow slots.

 

 

Which upon sale was pointed out to Government that the heathrow slots were all a buyer wanted. Once again the voices of people who knew were ignored as ministers who are legends in their own minds continue to make decisions which cripple the island.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

That easyJet offers a poor service is wholly unrelated to open skies.

The poor service from Easyjet I agree is nothing to do with the open skies policy but the fact they are here is. The gene is now out of the bottle but I and others argued at the time that to prevent the current position happening where a cheap airline flies in once a day to hover up enough passengers to make it uneconomical for others to operate the same route on a more frequent basis it could have been made a requirement that to operate certain routes minimum service levels have to be operated. e.g. on the Liverpool or London routes that there has to be a daily return flight before a certain time and after a certain time. You can still basically have an open skies policy just with service requirements on certain routes.

 

The Island may then not have lost Flybe as when they cut the base here one of the criteria was the number of aircraft/flights/routes operated from a base. I cannot remember now quite which. With no Easyjet here Flybe would probably not have already pulled services back and the Island may have been outside the criteria for the later cuts.

We'd have lost Flybe to Gatwick. They sold their slots to survive. They had no loyalty to IoM. The only airline that did was Manx. But at the end it's only value was the Heathrow slots.

 

 

Which upon sale was pointed out to Government that the heathrow slots were all a buyer wanted. Once again the voices of people who knew were ignored as ministers who are legends in their own minds continue to make decisions which cripple the island.

 

 

100% correct and the politicians are advised by people who know very little about transportation.

Edited by Andy Onchan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...