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Godwin's Law in a single post, that'll save some time.

Err, seeing as it was a fairly serious event in the history of the modern world, do you not think that you should at least be able to spell it?

Is Auswich just down the road from Prestwich? Or are you referring to Auschwitz?

Just been looking at some of the things that our Government have done to piss me off.

 

Then ive been looking upm photos of the Auswich concentration canmps, 10 year old kids batterd to death.

 

No matter how bad it is thank god your kids dont have to face what happened n the 1940s,

 

Lets face it the Germans and the Japenese were sadistic bastards thank god they didnt win the war.

I was going to protest about the government wasting lots of our money, then I thought about an indian I saw on TV, left outside tied up in the desert for the birds to pluck out his eyes, which put it all in perspective so I didn't bother protesting after all.

 

So it's ok as long as they don't do all what you mentioned above? How far toward that do they need to go before you get off your fat arse?

 

You nit.

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Just been looking at some of the things that our Government have done to piss me off.

 

Then ive been looking upm photos of the Auswich concentration canmps, 10 year old kids batterd to death.

 

No matter how bad it is thank god your kids dont have to face what happened n the 1940s,

 

Lets face it the Germans and the Japenese were sadistic bastards thank god they didnt win the war.

 

Just because some other government did things worse than ours, doesn't mean we should just shut up and stop criticising our government. It is precisely because of the Holocaust that I will never trust any government. By the way, the English were sadistic bastards when they murdered all the Jews in York in 1190, and violently expelled every Jew from the country in 1290 (they were banned from re-entering England until the 1650s). Whether you're German or Japanese or an Eskimo, all human beings are capable of being sadistic bastards. NONE of us are immune.

Edited by Thomas Jefferson
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70 years ago isn't modern, it's history.

 

Tell that to the Holocaust survivors still alive.

The current GCSE history syllabus includes up to and beyond the Vietnam War.

 

Well of course the Holocaust is "History"; I was referring to your suggestion that it isn't "Modern".

 

Although periodisation is arbitrary and a matter of scholarly dispute (and has inherent national or regional biases), "Modern history" usually refers to anything since the Industrial Revolution. "Early modern" refers to as early as circa 1500.

Edited by Thomas Jefferson
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Well of course the Holocaust is "History"; I was referring to your suggestion that it isn't "Modern".

 

Although periodisation is arbitrary and a matter of scholarly dispute (and has inherent national or regional biases), "Modern history" usually refers to anything since the Industrial Revolution. "Early modern" refers to as early as circa 1500.

I didn't suggest that.

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Over the 1989/90 new year I was staying with the then GFs relations on a small farm just outside Oświęcim (the Polish name for Auschwitz). After much deliberation, we decided to visit the camp - it was an extraordinary experience and something that you should all do if you get the chance.....

 

I doubt anyone could visit that place, especially in the middle of winter, and not come away totally ashamed of what one group of humans could inflict on others

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Over the 1989/90 new year I was staying with the then GFs relations on a small farm just outside Oświęcim (the Polish name for Auschwitz). After much deliberation, we decided to visit the camp - it was an extraordinary experience and something that you should all do if you get the chance.....

 

I doubt anyone could visit that place, especially in the middle of winter, and not come away totally ashamed of what one group of humans could inflict on others

 

Why should anyone feel shame for something they didn't do? Sure we should feel some sense of emotion, sadness, sorrow, mourning or even anger but surely not shame.

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OK - maybe the wrong choice of words.. but that visit is an experience that I will never forget.

 

I've often pondered visiting Auschwitz, Flanders or any other place of human madness but in all honesty I think I've been too scared to go, I don't think I would recover emotionally.

 

It was very noble (if that is the right word?) of you to go, I should go as I have Jewish blood but I just can't bring myself to it.

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It wasn't the Germans who introduced the concentration camps to the world...It was the British. Namely Lord Kitchener during the Boer war.

 

The Anglo-Boer War (1899-1902):

 

Some 28,000 Boers perished in Kitchener's concentration camps -- nearly all of them women and children.

 

The war's non-human costs were similarly appalling. As part of Kitchener's "scorched-earth" campaign, British troops wrought terrible destruction throughout the rural Boer areas, especially in the Orange Free State. Outside of the largest towns, hardly a building was left intact. Perhaps a tenth of the pre-war horses, cows and other farm stock remained. In much of the Boer lands, no crops had been sown for two years.

 

Even by the standards of the time (and certainly by those of today), British political and military leaders committed frightful war crimes and crimes against humanity against the Boers of South Africa -- crimes for which no one was ever brought to account. General Kitchener, for one, was never punished for introducing measures that even a future prime minister called "methods of barbarism." To the contrary, after concluding his South African service he was named a viscount and a field marshal, and then, at the outbreak of the First World War, was appointed Secretary of War. Upon his death in 1916, he was remembered not as a criminal, but rather idolized as a personification of British virtue and rectitude.

Concentration campsare to be distinguished from internment camps where people are held who are lawfully convicted of civil crimes and from prisoner-of-war camps in which captured military personnel are held under the laws of war. They are also to be distinguished from refugee camps ordetention and relocation centres for the temporary accommodation of large numbers of displaced persons.

camp2.jpg

A report after the war concluded that 27,927 Boers (of whom 22,074 were children under 16) and 14,154 black Africans had died of starvation, disease and exposure in the concentration camps. In all, about 25% of the Boer inmates and 12% of the black Africans died (although recent research suggests that the black African deaths were underestimated and may have actually been around 20,000). However the precise number of deaths is unknown. Reports have stated that the number of Boers killed was 18,000-28,000 and no one bothered to keep records on the number of deaths of the 107,000 Black Africans who were interned in Concentration Camps.

 

The British system of waging war was summarized in a report made in January 1902 by Boer General J.C. Smuts, later Prime Minister of the Union of South Africa:

 

"Lord Kitchener has begun to carry out a policy in both (Boer) republic of unbelievable barbarism and gruesomeness which violates the most elementary principles of the international rules of war. Almost all farmsteads and villages in both republics have been burned down and destroyed. All crops have been destroyed. All livestock which had fallen into the hands of the enemy has been killed or slaughtered.

 

The basic principle behind Lord Kitchener's tactics had been to win, not so much through direct operations against fighting commandos, but rather indirectly by bringing the pressure of war against defenceless women and children."

 

"... This violation of every international law is really very characteristic of the nation which always plays the role of chosen judge over the customs and behaviour of all other nations."

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