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Flu Vaccine


Voyeur
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Some people actually bother to go through the stats and pick out the data. Check out the following page for some further info and the image below shows what they pulled on the HPV vaccine as of August 2012 from VAERS: http://www.whale.to/...ers_deaths.html

 

 

Oh and I do have to say I find what you've written here just wonderfully ironic: "Some people actually bother to go through the stats and pick out the data".

 

And you then link to this web site:

 

The Whale

 

Thanks for sending us the link - when I'm next interested in looking into The Reign of Evil, The Cult of Authority, Symbology, All seeing eye, Satanic horn, Psychopathy, Satanism, Reptilians, State Genocide, War Inc I'll definitely consider using The Whale to gather some data, but if I'm looking for people bothering to actually to through the stats and pick out the data from VAERS, then I think I'll go here.

 

My word. That might be the stupidest website I've ever read.

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Some people actually bother to go through the stats and pick out the data. Check out the following page for some further info and the image below shows what they pulled on the HPV vaccine as of August 2012 from VAERS: http://www.whale.to/...ers_deaths.html

 

 

Oh and I do have to say I find what you've written here just wonderfully ironic: "Some people actually bother to go through the stats and pick out the data".

 

And you then link to this web site:

 

The Whale

 

Thanks for sending us the link - when I'm next interested in looking into The Reign of Evil, The Cult of Authority, Symbology, All seeing eye, Satanic horn, Psychopathy, Satanism, Reptilians, State Genocide, War Inc I'll definitely consider using The Whale to gather some data, but if I'm looking for people bothering to actually to through the stats and pick out the data from VAERS, then I think I'll go here.

 

Thanks, I didn't realise there was so much other interesting stuff on that website - I'll have a closer look later.

 

Oh and yeah, of course the adverse reactions could be coincidence, but then again I guess the vaccine companies are wealthy enough to pay for studies that could be weighted in their favour - but that would surely never happen would it haha?

 

Vaccines kill people, and or seriously harm them - it says so on the side effects inserts in all vaccines.

 

Dirty hospitals kill people. Over prescription of anti-biotics for things like earache are about to unleash an apocolypse of uncontrollable disease, why was this allowed to happen?

 

But no, don't worry scientists are there, all will be well trust them, and trust everything they say. The system works, nothing is broken. The economy will be fine, people are healthy, there's no sickness, disease, cancer, diabetes, autism or anything else, modern medicine has cured all ills.

 

Nothing to see here, go back to sleep.

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Some people actually bother to go through the stats and pick out the data. Check out the following page for some further info and the image below shows what they pulled on the HPV vaccine as of August 2012 from VAERS: http://www.whale.to/...ers_deaths.html

 

 

Oh and I do have to say I find what you've written here just wonderfully ironic: "Some people actually bother to go through the stats and pick out the data".

 

And you then link to this web site:

 

The Whale

 

Thanks for sending us the link - when I'm next interested in looking into The Reign of Evil, The Cult of Authority, Symbology, All seeing eye, Satanic horn, Psychopathy, Satanism, Reptilians, State Genocide, War Inc I'll definitely consider using The Whale to gather some data, but if I'm looking for people bothering to actually to through the stats and pick out the data from VAERS, then I think I'll go here.

 

Thanks, I didn't realise there was so much other interesting stuff on that website - I'll have a closer look later.

Yeah especially the picture with "This is the Christ energy seeing off the Dark Side, so set your intent on this happening." oh dear

Oh and yeah, of course the adverse reactions could be coincidence, but then again I guess the vaccine companies are wealthy enough to pay for studies that could be weighted in their favour - but that would surely never happen would it haha?

 

Vaccines kill people, and or seriously harm them - it says so on the side effects inserts in all vaccines.

 

Really, they say that they kill eh? Did you read that when you went for your vaccination? Tell people who saw their families die from smallpox that vaccinations are the work of the devil.

 

Dirty hospitals kill people. Over prescription of anti-biotics for things like earache are about to unleash an apocolypse of uncontrollable disease, why was this allowed to happen?

 

But no, don't worry scientists are there, all will be well trust them, and trust everything they say. The system works, nothing is broken. The economy will be fine, people are healthy, there's no sickness, disease, cancer, diabetes, autism or anything else, modern medicine has cured all ills.

 

There's certainly been a culture of over-use of antibiotics, and that's a problem that is being alerted to by, oh my god, the science community most of all! As for hospitals, it's a known issue that diseases can linger that's why continuous measures like air filtering are happening. Are you implying we should get rid of hospitals?

 

Where are you alternatives to these 'problems' you suggest? What are you actually raging against? You're being a rather awful armchair scientist right now.

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Thanks, I didn't realise there was so much other interesting stuff on that website - I'll have a closer look later.

 

Oh and yeah, of course the adverse reactions could be coincidence, but then again I guess the vaccine companies are wealthy enough to pay for studies that could be weighted in their favour - but that would surely never happen would it haha?

 

Vaccines kill people, and or seriously harm them - it says so on the side effects inserts in all vaccines.

 

Dirty hospitals kill people. Over prescription of anti-biotics for things like earache are about to unleash an apocolypse of uncontrollable disease, why was this allowed to happen?

 

But no, don't worry scientists are there, all will be well trust them, and trust everything they say. The system works, nothing is broken. The economy will be fine, people are healthy, there's no sickness, disease, cancer, diabetes, autism or anything else, modern medicine has cured all ills.

 

Nothing to see here, go back to sleep.

 

I'm going to ignore most of the idiocy in this post just to point out that the leaflet that comes with medicine that tells you you're definitely going to die also comes with packets of Sodium Chloride in the pharmaceutical industry. It's literally listed as potentially fatal.

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-------------Jeffersonnian Rhetoric --------- or should we just call it wind?

Do you understand what I said?

 

Doesn't look like it.

 

It's a bit wierd - immediately after saying this:

 

Scientists are no more neutral, professional or impervious to authority and paradigms than any other branch of human knowledge. Feel free to put them on a pedestal and appeal to their authority, blindly believing everything you're told, but don't expect people capable of critical thinking and independent judgement to do likewise.

 

He then goes and quotes a scientist:

 

Lucija Tomljenovic, PhD -

Neural Dynamics Research Group, Dept. of Ophthalmology and Visual Sciences, University of British Columbia

Source: http://www.ecomed.or...tomljenovic.pdf

 

Oh dear, do try to be consistent Mr Jefferson.

 

And do you really think research scientists are just as conformist as priests, lawyers, and lobbyists for oil companies?

 

You should try the Hobo quiz I found a while back.

 

Though you do have a point - individual scientists can be just as prone to biases and clinging to pet theories as the person in the lab opposite.

 

The only trouble is that science requires getting the person in the lab opposite to accept what you've written. That is what makes it a very different endeavor than any other branch of human knowledge - and far more successful.

 

When you get to a recommendation like this from the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence:

 

 

1.7.3 BCG vaccination for infants and older children

1.7.3.1 Routine BCG vaccination is not recommended for children aged 10-14.

 

Then you can be sure it has been debated and argued about with lots of data and evidence to back it up.

 

Is that evidence definitely correct - of course not. Knowledge is improving all the time, but the idea that some bloke on the internet, or user of Whale.com is going to be able to refute the evidence is really really weak.

 

Now definitely Lucija Tomljenovic, PhD is trying to make her case to the medical profession - she is a part of the argument. But do other members of the medical profession agree with her - erm it seems not - Link*

 

Individual papers are the grist to science's mill, many of them are not particularly useful. But review papers especially in journals like Science or Nature, or prestigious specialist journals, well, they contain about as much knowledge on a subject as is possible to synthesize at one particular moment.

 

If Ms Tomlijenovic PhD gets her work into a review article, maybe NICE's vaccine recommendations will change - but the idea that the side effect rates from vaccinations are orders of magnitude higher than currently estimated is really really unlikely - epidemiologists would be able to see reactions at these rates - they don't. And side effects would have to be that much higher to make vaccination a bad idea.

 

 

*- be warned Orac can be even more verbose than me - is that possible?

Edited by Chinahand
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4,250% Increase in Fetal Deaths Reported to VAERS After Flu Shot Given to Pregnant Women

 

Documentation received from the National Coalition of Organized Women (NCOW) states that between 2009 and 2010 the mercury-laden combined flu vaccinations have increased Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting Systems (VAERS) fetal death reports by 4,250 percent in pregnant women. Eileen Dannemann, NCOW’s director, made abundantly clear that despite these figures being known to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), the multiple-strain, inactivated flu vaccine containing mercury (Thimerosal) has once again been recommended to pregnant women as a safe vaccination this season.

 

Taken from here http://vactruth.com/2012/11/23/flu-shot-spikes-fetal-death/

 

The VAERS system is a passive reporting system, so probably massively under-records adverse events. People who organise after they, or their children have been damaged however are probably worth listening to.

 

And Rami as for 'raging' I don't know what you mean. Some posters here seem to assume there is nothing wrong, medical science has it all covered etc.. - what I attempted to point out is that if even the basics such as cleaning hospitals properly - or not prescribing anti-biotics unless they are absolutley necessary, then things are far from allright.

 

Are vaccines becoming like anti-biotics, are they being over prescribed - are they really all necessary?

 

Would money be far better spent cleaning hospitals and equipment properly?

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4,250% Increase in Fetal Deaths Reported to VAERS After Flu Shot Given to Pregnant Women

 

Documentation received from the National Coalition of Organized Women (NCOW) states that between 2009 and 2010 the mercury-laden combined flu vaccinations have increased Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting Systems (VAERS) fetal death reports by 4,250 percent in pregnant women. Eileen Dannemann, NCOW’s director, made abundantly clear that despite these figures being known to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), the multiple-strain, inactivated flu vaccine containing mercury (Thimerosal) has once again been recommended to pregnant women as a safe vaccination this season.

 

Taken from here http://vactruth.com/...es-fetal-death/

 

The VAERS system is a passive reporting system, so probably massively under-records adverse events. People who organise after they, or their children have been damaged however are probably worth listening to.

 

And Rami as for 'raging' I don't know what you mean. Some posters here seem to assume there is nothing wrong, medical science has it all covered etc.. - what I attempted to point out is that if even the basics such as cleaning hospitals properly - or not prescribing anti-biotics unless they are absolutley necessary, then things are far from allright.

 

Are vaccines becoming like anti-biotics, are they being over prescribed - are they really all necessary?

 

Would money be far better spent cleaning hospitals and equipment properly?

 

And here is a properly written non sensationalist-tripe article that shows exactly what's wrong with the one you linked

http://scienceblogs....t-flu-vaccines/

 

Do try to pick better sources than crackpots with very little knowledge.

Edited by HeliX
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4,250% Increase in Fetal Deaths Reported to VAERS After Flu Shot Given to Pregnant Women

 

Documentation received from the National Coalition of Organized Women (NCOW) states that between 2009 and 2010 the mercury-laden combined flu vaccinations have increased Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting Systems (VAERS) fetal death reports by 4,250 percent in pregnant women. Eileen Dannemann, NCOW’s director, made abundantly clear that despite these figures being known to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), the multiple-strain, inactivated flu vaccine containing mercury (Thimerosal) has once again been recommended to pregnant women as a safe vaccination this season.

 

Taken from here http://vactruth.com/...es-fetal-death/

 

The VAERS system is a passive reporting system, so probably massively under-records adverse events. People who organise after they, or their children have been damaged however are probably worth listening to.

 

And Rami as for 'raging' I don't know what you mean. Some posters here seem to assume there is nothing wrong, medical science has it all covered etc.. - what I attempted to point out is that if even the basics such as cleaning hospitals properly - or not prescribing anti-biotics unless they are absolutley necessary, then things are far from allright.

 

Are vaccines becoming like anti-biotics, are they being over prescribed - are they really all necessary?

 

Would money be far better spent cleaning hospitals and equipment properly?

 

And here is a properly written non sensationalist-tripe article that shows exactly what's wrong with the one you linked

http://scienceblogs....t-flu-vaccines/

 

Do try to pick better sources than crackpots with very little knowledge.

 

I do find it humorous that everyone who disagrees or publishes studies against vaccines are crackpots whereas everyone who avocates them are all sensible people.... and all studies which show them in a positive light are proper science and non-sensationalist. Excellent stuff.

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4,250% Increase in Fetal Deaths Reported to VAERS After Flu Shot Given to Pregnant Women

 

Documentation received from the National Coalition of Organized Women (NCOW) states that between 2009 and 2010 the mercury-laden combined flu vaccinations have increased Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting Systems (VAERS) fetal death reports by 4,250 percent in pregnant women. Eileen Dannemann, NCOW’s director, made abundantly clear that despite these figures being known to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), the multiple-strain, inactivated flu vaccine containing mercury (Thimerosal) has once again been recommended to pregnant women as a safe vaccination this season.

 

Taken from here http://vactruth.com/...es-fetal-death/

 

The VAERS system is a passive reporting system, so probably massively under-records adverse events. People who organise after they, or their children have been damaged however are probably worth listening to.

 

And Rami as for 'raging' I don't know what you mean. Some posters here seem to assume there is nothing wrong, medical science has it all covered etc.. - what I attempted to point out is that if even the basics such as cleaning hospitals properly - or not prescribing anti-biotics unless they are absolutley necessary, then things are far from allright.

 

Are vaccines becoming like anti-biotics, are they being over prescribed - are they really all necessary?

 

Would money be far better spent cleaning hospitals and equipment properly?

 

And here is a properly written non sensationalist-tripe article that shows exactly what's wrong with the one you linked

http://scienceblogs....t-flu-vaccines/

 

Do try to pick better sources than crackpots with very little knowledge.

 

I do find it humorous that everyone who disagrees or publishes studies against vaccines are crackpots whereas everyone who avocates them are all sensible people.... and all studies which show them in a positive light are proper science and non-sensationalist. Excellent stuff.

 

Nice strawman.

 

The person who wrote the article Ringwraith linked doesn't have a background in medicine, or even science in general. THAT is why they're a crackpot with no knowledge.

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I do find it humorous that everyone who disagrees or publishes studies against vaccines are crackpots whereas everyone who avocates them are all sensible people.... and all studies which show them in a positive light are proper science and non-sensationalist. Excellent stuff.

 

It isn't a coincidence, it's because they are mostly crackpots. They're generally people without a clue jumping to silly conclusions. The ones who aren't crackpots are the peer reviewed papers that show the correctly observed results.

 

It's not a coincidence that the same people are selling self help or mind over matter or acupuncture or shite like that. It's made up bollocks. Like the bloke you linked curing cancer with bicarb. Fucking mental, and you're linking these people over a Norwegian peer reviewed study. Crackpots.

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I find it humorous that people sit here and state: do not believe everything you read!!!! So much is wrong!

 

Then they base their own ideas of 'what is wrong' *purely* on what they've read.

 

The big difference is this:

 

- We read research on sites that are peer reviewed, and go through a known rigorous process, from a community (read: science) that has evolved over more than century now and is the very reason you can even read your silly sites.

- You're constantly linking to sites like jesus-is-coming.com or whale.ot which have a ridiculous amount of rubbish on them (ranging from the devil is among us to things I don't even wish to aliens inserting rectal probes)

 

Helix didn't just say they were crackpots, he linked one of *many* peer-reviewed research that debunks the crackpots in question (and yet those people, claiming to be scientists, refuse to use the scientific method)

 

So unless we're all biochemists in here, shall we stick to rational debate and peer-reviewed science as such that has given us our current technological capabilites? Or shall we act like hobos on the corner of a street with a sign saying 'THE END IS NIGH'?

Edited by Rami
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I find it humorous that people sit here and state: do not believe everything you read!!!! So much is wrong!

 

Then they base their own ideas of 'what is wrong' *purely* on what they've read.

 

The big difference is this:

 

- We read research on sites that are peer reviewed, and go through a known rigorous process, from a community (read: science) that has evolved over more than century now and is the very reason you can even read your silly sites.

- You're constantly linking to sites like jesus-is-coming.com or whale.ot which have a ridiculous amount of rubbish on them (ranging from the devil is among us to things I don't even wish to aliens inserting rectal probes)

 

Helix didn't just say they were crackpots, he linked one of *many* peer-reviewed research that debunks the crackpots in question (and yet those people, claiming to be scientists, refuse to use the scientific method)

 

So unless we're all biochemists in here, shall we stick to rational debate and peer-reviewed science as such that has given us our current technological capabilites? Or shall we act like hobos on the corner of a street with a sign saying 'THE END IS NIGH'?

 

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...shall we stick to rational debate and peer-reviewed science as such that has given us our current technological capabilites? Or shall we act like hobos on the corner of a street with a sign saying 'THE END IS NIGH'?

 

I have to say, MF wouldn't be much fun if everyone stuck to "rational debate and peer-reviewed science". As barmy as they are, the views of the likes of Crossross and Lxxx, and the responses they provoke, is what a site like this is all about isn't it?

 

Personally, I would say I've learned a lot by reading some of the most thoughtful and well researched and presented posts(especially the contributions from Chinahand) and comparing them with the nonesense in some of the "alternative" posters' contributions.

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