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Are We Living In A Computer Simulation?

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I think this idea of a conceptual withdrawal of the divine essence

I don't know what you mean by 'conceptual' here either.
For God to really be God, he/she would need to be the absolute entirety of existence prior to the creation of the universe
That would be your own view on what a God would have to be like, but as you know there are lots of different ideas of God.
...which then leads to the question of "where" the universe is in relation to "where" God is, or the question of how finite reality could exist alongside infinite reality -- the only answer is that it exists within it, in a contraction of the infinite
Finite and infinite reality? Not sure that they mean.
But again, I repeat: my thinking on this matter is based on the presupposition that God exists, which is something I can't prove.
You don't need prove. Evidence is fine.

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"Thinking" means speculation, not belief and definitely not knowledge.
If you said to someone that grass is green they said that was their thinking too then in my view that would mean that you held the same thoughts on this matter, i.e. the grass being green. It's not important I suppose.

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I think I'll Control, Alt and Delete out of this riveting conversation.

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He hasn't stated he believed it, just that it was ''identical to his thinking...''.

Two completely different realms....

Are they? I thought they were the same. Could you please explain how they are different?

 

Belief, usually, indicates conclusion. Thinking, always, is speculation. One doesn't necessarily reveal the other.

Completely different realms...

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He hasn't stated he believed it, just that it was ''identical to his thinking...''.

Two completely different realms....

Are they? I thought they were the same. Could you please explain how they are different?

 

Belief, usually, indicates conclusion. Thinking, always, is speculation. One doesn't necessarily reveal the other.

Completely different realms...

It's a real bind when you've got to get the crayons out so often.

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CTRL alt delete - I want to get off!

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Belief, usually, indicates conclusion. Thinking, always, is speculation. One doesn't necessarily reveal the other.

Completely different realms...

I really don't think this is that important, but you have lost me on your 'thinking'(?) here.

I agree with what you say about belief. But not about your definition of thinking. My understanding of the use of term is such that it can be a belief, it can be speculation, and neither. But if you said something was your thinking and the content of what you describe as your thinking is fundamentally about a belief and the reasons for that belief then I understand your thinking to be about belief and involve making a claim.

And that's what the earlier post contained, someone's beliefs. If TJ says that it is also HIS thinking then I understand that to be agreement on the same beliefs. I don't know what speculation is supposed to mean.

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All this parsing of the word thinking is all very well. But can we go back to what TJ actually said:

 

The lurianic concept of tzimtzum is virtually identical to my own thinking on the matter. From Wikipedia:

 

God began the process of creation by "contracting" his infinite light in order to allow for a "conceptual space" in which finite and seemingly independent realms could exist.

 

Prior to Creation, there was only the infinite or Ein Sof filling all existence. When it arose in G-d's Will to create worlds and emanate the emanated...He contracted (in Hebrew "tzimtzum") Himself in the point at the center, in the very center of His light. He restricted that light, distancing it to the sides surrounding the central point, so that there remained a void, a hollow empty space, away from the central point... After this tzimtzum... He drew down from the Or Ein Sof a single straight line [of light] from His light surrounding [the void] from above to below [into the void], and it chained down descending into that void.... In the space of that void He emanated, created, formed and made all the worlds. (Etz Chaim, Arizal, Heichal A"K, anaf 2)

 

That quote from Wikipedia is a wonderous piece of meaninglessness. If a person thinks such a description is useful for understand the processes at the beginning of time they are naive. Light is made from photons - they require electrodynamics and all the field theories this involves.

 

It's great metaphorical language, but it tells us absolutely nothing. TJ's thinking is "virtually identical" to this - says a lot to me.

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All this parsing of the word thinking is all very well. But can we go back to what TJ actually said:

 

The lurianic concept of tzimtzum is virtually identical to my own thinking on the matter. From Wikipedia:

 

God began the process of creation by "contracting" his infinite light in order to allow for a "conceptual space" in which finite and seemingly independent realms could exist.

 

Prior to Creation, there was only the infinite or Ein Sof filling all existence. When it arose in G-d's Will to create worlds and emanate the emanated...He contracted (in Hebrew "tzimtzum") Himself in the point at the center, in the very center of His light. He restricted that light, distancing it to the sides surrounding the central point, so that there remained a void, a hollow empty space, away from the central point... After this tzimtzum... He drew down from the Or Ein Sof a single straight line [of light] from His light surrounding [the void] from above to below [into the void], and it chained down descending into that void.... In the space of that void He emanated, created, formed and made all the worlds. (Etz Chaim, Arizal, Heichal A"K, anaf 2)

 

That quote from Wikipedia is a wonderous piece of meaninglessness. If a person thinks such a description is useful for understand the processes at the beginning of time they are naive. Light is made from photons - they require electrodynamics and all the field theories this involves.

 

It's great metaphorical language, but it tells us absolutely nothing. TJ's thinking is "virtually identical" to this - says a lot to me.

 

Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean it's meaningless. Much more likely is that you have zero grounding in Judaism or theology in general, so you don't know what it's talking about. It isn't talking about literal light, it's talking about conceptual light. The author is using everyday physical terms to describe spiritual reality. If we didn't use physical terms, we would not have any remaining vocabulary to convey such things. We're using imperfect language to describe perfection. I'm able to visualise in my mind what the author is talking about, and to understand what he is saying about the nature of reality, and the relationship between the finite and the infinite, so it can't be meaningless.

Edited by Thomas Jefferson

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Chinahand - what do you understand from the statement of 'identical thinking'. Is not an express of the same beliefs as well?

 

My thinking on this is virtually identical to yours.

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Chinahand - what do you understand from the statement of 'identical thinking'. Is not an express of the same beliefs as well?

 

Depends whether the person is open-minded and really is only "thinking" along certain lines, fully willing to change their "thinking" based on information, logic and reason.

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Chinahand - what do you understand from the statement of 'identical thinking'. Is not an express of the same beliefs as well?

 

Depends whether the person is open-minded and really is only "thinking" along certain lines, fully willing to change their "thinking" based on information, logic and reason.

 

Counts you out then....

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