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Nhs Dentists


Butterflies
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What illusion Sarah? You obviously don't go to one of the DH run clinics 'cos we've been told they haven't got enough dentists to do checkups, 6 monthly or otherwise, or any other form of prevention.

 

Barrie - NHS dentistry is commonly available again in the UK and not just Chelmsford mainly due to the huge influx of dentists from the "new" EU countries and the likes of South Africa. There are (or were) considerable incentives to start a new practice in what were earlier thought of as crappy areas which might not appear so crappy if you are from, say, a crappy part of Romania or Bulgaria (or Latvia as you mention). Unfortunately the quite bizarre newer regulations mean that the treatment is likely geared to matching those regulations rather than the complete patient need.

 

The same thing can happen here and the list of treatments commonly available in the salaried service appear not to match those defined by the NHS Act. In other words they appear to be more restrictive although it has been made clear that clinical need might over ride such restrictions. Of course dentists can debate clinical need ad infinitum.

So the Isle of Man has no problems then?
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Well the IOM shouldn't have but seems to have. I don't know about any IOM independent NHS dentists but the practice that my family attend (DH owned and run clinic in Westmoreland Rd) appears to have many problems on many levels. We've been going there since it was round the back of the old Nobles many years ago and provision was originally more than adequate. However over the past two or three years, it has been very difficult to get an appointment. The exact reasons for this are no doubt complicated and if you contact those nice people in the Dept. they will happily tell you that they are implementing various initiatives of one sort or another to sort it. However when the Minister himself has to start making excuses on the interweb for the obvious restriction of healthcare delivery then this appears to show significant management failings.

 

To give a balanced view, someone will always see you if you are in pain (although not necessarily on the day you finally get through on the phone after, say, 30 attempts). However any continuing care appointments can be months in the future and it's obvious the Service is completely inadequately manned by dentists. I feel sorry for the receptionists who have to face the patients and who always appear to be desperately trying to find spaces in the appointment book. I understand that 3 locums (in addition to the locum that's been there over a year) have recently been employed at great cost and whilst this is bound to help, I'll wager many patients are forced to pay privately because they cannot wait any longer.

 

How can this be when so many foreign dentists seem to want to come to the rest of the British Isles to work in the NHS? It just doesn't make sense......

Edited by ballaughbiker
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I tend to think they should be paid somewhere along the same lines as a building tradesman, good with their hands, fair enough but not that special.

Hmm, I think there's a bit more to it than that Blade or are you just trolling ever so slightly (not something you usually do though).

 

A quick look at the requirements required to go from school at GCSE level to being able to practice here http://www.learnhowtobecomeadentist.com/how-to-become-a-dentist-in-the-uk/

They say it takes 10 years!

 

Even not taking into account the actual skill and responsibility when able to work and also conveniently forgetting the no doubt huge cost to actually start a practice, would you work for the daily rate of say a sparks or plumber having committed 10 years of your life and no doubt a considerable amount of money for the training? You might if you are from Romania but I wouldn't blame anyone going through the UK system for getting into the private sector asap if some of your patients rate your skills to be comparable level of a building tradesman.

 

Edited to add : It's interesting that the courses are one of the most over subscribed though....

Edited by ballaughbiker
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How can this be when so many foreign dentists seem to want to come to the rest of the British Isles to work in the NHS? It just doesn't make sense......

 

It's actually very simple. The government simply isn't allocating enough money to the service. If you look at the website of the Port Erin Dental Surgery, they say:

 

New NHS Patients

 

The amount of NHS dental care we can provide is limited by the budget allocated to us by the Isle of Man Government.

 

Although we do not have any “spare” budget for new patients, we can sometimes accept new NHS patients anyway[...]

 

If there is anything, you need or desire from us in the mean time, we will offer it to you under a private agreement.

 

As soon as you get to the front of our waiting list, we will take you on as an NHS patient.

 

So it's not a lack of capacity or dentists, it's lack of cash. Still I'm sure they've got better things to spend it on that other people's health.

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I wonder what the total budget is for their own clinics and how many UDA* they achieved per year. If only we had a FOI athough this information would be no doubt be classed as "sensitive".

 

* Have a look at http://www.dentistforum.co.uk/nhs-dentistry/what-is-a-uda/

 

To be fair they are bound to see more 'unprofitable' patients then average but I'll wager the true cost of running this service would be absolutely staggering. I wonder if anyone wants their MHK to ask this very inconvenient question and why they are so understaffed. Alfie .....you might have one very interested and concerned constituent contacting you before too long.

 

 

Edited to add that it appears quite mad to get the same fee for one or ten fillings or one or 10 crowns. That can't be right can it? Are there any NHS dentists willing to confirm that is actually the case? And an extraction is the same fee as a complex root filling? Surely not.

Edited by ballaughbiker
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I tend to think they should be paid somewhere along the same lines as a building tradesman, good with their hands, fair enough but not that special.

Hmm, I think there's a bit more to it than that Blade or are you just trolling ever so slightly (not something you usually do though).

 

A quick look at the requirements required to go from school at GCSE level to being able to practice here http://www.learnhowtobecomeadentist.com/how-to-become-a-dentist-in-the-uk/

They say it takes 10 years!

 

Even not taking into account the actual skill and responsibility when able to work and also conveniently forgetting the no doubt huge cost to actually start a practice, would you work for the daily rate of say a sparks or plumber having committed 10 years of your life and no doubt a considerable amount of money for the training? You might if you are from Romania but I wouldn't blame anyone going through the UK system for getting into the private sector asap if some of your patients rate your skills to be comparable level of a building tradesman.

 

Edited to add : It's interesting that the courses are one of the most over subscribed though....

 

I know tradsmen that earn over a hundred grand BB, but fair comment, I was half way under the bridge last night.......thumbsup.gif

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I wonder what the total budget is for their own clinics and how many UDA* they achieved per year. If only we had a FOI athough this information would be no doubt be classed as "sensitive".

 

* Have a look at http://www.dentistforum.co.uk/nhs-dentistry/what-is-a-uda/

 

To be fair they are bound to see more 'unprofitable' patients then average but I'll wager the true cost of running this service would be absolutely staggering. I wonder if anyone wants their MHK to ask this very inconvenient question and why they are so understaffed. Alfie .....you might have one very interested and concerned constituent contacting you before too long.

 

 

Edited to add that it appears quite mad to get the same fee for one or ten fillings or one or 10 crowns. That can't be right can it? Are there any NHS dentists willing to confirm that is actually the case? And an extraction is the same fee as a complex root filling? Surely not.

I thought the new contract and payments structure in 3 tiers was what the dentists wanted.

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Dunno MM. It would be good to get a NHS dentist's views on this.

 

Being a natural sceptic, I doubt the NHS would do anything the practitioners (or patients) want. It's much more likely that changes have been made to reduce the cost whilst at the same time trumpeting some such nonsense like "you wanted a simpler system so we've made it simpler" and forgetting to point out the snags for the poor old patient and dentist of that simpler system.

Edited by ballaughbiker
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How do you get your kids registered with a dentist, if you don't have one yourself? (mine retired)

 

I was private but I went on the waiting list and once I was accepted the whole family was "in" too.

 

It actually took 4 years and the Practice was at the opposite end of the island to where I live but what does that matter?

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