Jump to content

New Shipping Line?


Recommended Posts

 

 

 

 

some carriers are clearly investing in new craft

Hasn't the steam packet said, quite a lot, it is ready to invest a lot of money in new boats, but can't justify doing that given it doesn't know if it will still be in business in 10 years?

That doesn't entitle them to a free run at another lucrative contract if there is the potential out there to offer the island more by another operator. It might well be that the Steam Packet is our best option but until exploring all the options we just don't know.

I don't agree.

I think, on past and present service to the Island, the Steam Packet DO deserve our (and government) support 100%.

I would hate to think that this, or any future government, would bin the SPCo just because they may get offered a deal that would make an extra few quid.

The knowledge and experience that the SPCo management and crews have is vital to the running of our ferries, so unless a "new" ferry operator is going to take on all the SPCo staff I think the whole idea of change is mad. ( even if the Gov. are just showing who is boss )

Oh dear.

 

 

Oh dear yourself.

 

Remember Manx Airlines? Most (probably not you though) look back fondly on an airline which was based around Manx needs,

not empty slots that no one else wanted.

 

Remember that when the Steam Packet has gone, when there is no local accountability and you are at the mercy of a big operator who has a

focus elsewhere.

 

There are benefits to having a ferry company serving us that is only interested in the Isle of Man.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 411
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

And it doesn't take 4 hours, it takes 3.30. Boats today go slower because of design parameters like economy and extending engine life. So whilst boats can be designed to run faster there is a price pe

Ellan Vannin have appeared to be a bunch of amateurs from day one. When they first came out they were from memory asking for CSP's, lawyers and accountants to get in touch if they wanted to act for th

The Steam Packet had their own link span, but gave it up and it was removed as part of the terms of the UA.   My understanding is that it goes roughly like this; Macquarie, which owned the shares,

Posted Images

Errrr, Fossils, do you think the other eight apparently interested companies are offering to do it for free?

 

Any private enterprise offering a service will be in it to make money - to pay for their running costs, to pay their staff salaries, to invest in their ships, to maintain their ships and train their staff to meet marine standards...and, of course, to pay their shareholders.

 

I, for one, would rather have a local team of managers, local land based and (mostly) seagoing staff, who know and understand the Isle of Man, than an offshoot of larger non-local outfits who really are only in it for the cash. The vast majority of the Steam Packet staff, their families and friends are also actually reliant on the sea services themselves, which I should imagine focuses the mind somewhat!

 

Imagine the "no loo-rolls in Tesco" and the "can't get home for Christmas" scenarios playing out over here when the decisions to sail/move boats around etc are made from Ireland, the UK or further afield...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

 

 

some carriers are clearly investing in new craft

Hasn't the steam packet said, quite a lot, it is ready to invest a lot of money in new boats, but can't justify doing that given it doesn't know if it will still be in business in 10 years?

That doesn't entitle them to a free run at another lucrative contract if there is the potential out there to offer the island more by another operator. It might well be that the Steam Packet is our best option but until exploring all the options we just don't know.

I don't agree.

I think, on past and present service to the Island, the Steam Packet DO deserve our (and government) support 100%.

I would hate to think that this, or any future government, would bin the SPCo just because they may get offered a deal that would make an extra few quid.

The knowledge and experience that the SPCo management and crews have is vital to the running of our ferries, so unless a "new" ferry operator is going to take on all the SPCo staff I think the whole idea of change is mad. ( even if the Gov. are just showing who is boss )

Oh dear.

There are benefits to having a ferry company serving us that is only interested in the Isle of Man.

Jesus wept.....

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

When this exercise has been finished who could blame the SP for deciding not to invest in ship improvement et'c whilst our dimwits are actively seeking to replace them.

For all the moaners and packet knockers, think back just a couple of weeks when the Ben developed problems and how quickly they responded by bringing the sea-cat out of dry dock and getting the Arrow for our freight needs, both in rapid time.

Our Island needs them for ongoing shipping continuity, and our politicians need to be very careful what they are doing lest we end up in the proverbial.

Be careful what you wish for folks because I for one do not have any confidence in the present administration.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember Manx Airlines? Most (probably not you though) look back fondly on an airline which was based around Manx needs,

not empty slots that no one else wanted ... There are benefits to having a ferry company serving us that is only interested in the Isle of Man.

The airline industry was working with different models when that was viable. But I don't look back on that era fondly anyhow. Manx Airlines was always a bit grotty IMO. Easy Jet is great.

 

If the IOM were part of the UK our essential services would almost certainly be subsidised by govt. Because the IOM has chosen to be increasingly separate those travel services have to be viable. It's amazing in some ways that we even have a boat most days.

 

ETA: the busiest schedule, the most flights to the most destinations, was during the era when the various UK govt owned predecessors to BA operated most of the routes.

Edited by pongo
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

That doesn't entitle them to a free run at another lucrative contract if there is the potential out there to offer the island more by another operator. It might well be that the Steam Packet is our best option but until exploring all the options we just don't know.

 

I don't think that the SP should have a free run but equally I dislike the fact that existing contracts are put out to tender all the time as it is a disincentive to build up a business. Away from the SP look at the way catering establishments have built up a business only to be thrown out when contracts have to be retendered for. If somebody is doing a good job and when a lease or whatever is up the parties can sit down and agree terms then I see no reason to retender. If I lease a property out and the end of the lease is imminent if I am happy with the tennant I would seek to agree terms, I would not say, sorry mate I am putting it out to an agent and if you make the best offer you can stay.

 

With regard to the SP if the Govt think they are doing a good job and the Govt can agree terms and conditions with the SP which the Govt believe are fair and meet the criteria of what the Govt want I have no problem if it is not tendered. If the Govt believe the SP are not doing a good job then they should be looking for a different operator

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

That doesn't entitle them to a free run at another lucrative contract if there is the potential out there to offer the island more by another operator. It might well be that the Steam Packet is our best option but until exploring all the options we just don't know.

 

I don't think that the SP should have a free run but equally I dislike the fact that existing contracts are put out to tender all the time as it is a disincentive to build up a business. Away from the SP look at the way catering establishments have built up a business only to be thrown out when contracts have to be retendered for. If somebody is doing a good job and when a lease or whatever is up the parties can sit down and agree terms then I see no reason to retender. If I lease a property out and the end of the lease is imminent if I am happy with the tennant I would seek to agree terms, I would not say, sorry mate I am putting it out to an agent and if you make the best offer you can stay.

 

With regard to the SP if the Govt think they are doing a good job and the Govt can agree terms and conditions with the SP which the Govt believe are fair and meet the criteria of what the Govt want I have no problem if it is not tendered. If the Govt believe the SP are not doing a good job then they should be looking for a different operator

 

 

Just automatically extending a contract doesn't happen in the real world with public services. Why should it be a closed shop if someone else could offer a better deal for IoM Gov and citizens? If after a tendering process the Steam Packet offer the best package and returns then everyone is a winner, business as usual. There may be a number of areas where they could sharpen their pencil but if there is no competition then why should they, more money flowing into their coffers to service their debts if so.

I'm currently doing a lot of work on the Clyde and Hebridean Ferry Services tendering process at the moment, different setup admittedly with regards subsidies but it does show you there are experienced companies of a sound financial backing out there willing to express an interest in operating ferry services, not a million miles away from here. So why not see what they have to offer?

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

 

some carriers are clearly investing in new craft

Hasn't the steam packet said, quite a lot, it is ready to invest a lot of money in new boats, but can't justify doing that given it doesn't know if it will still be in business in 10 years?

That doesn't entitle them to a free run at another lucrative contract if there is the potential out there to offer the island more by another operator. It might well be that the Steam Packet is our best option but until exploring all the options we just don't know.

I don't agree.

I think, on past and present service to the Island, the Steam Packet DO deserve our (and government) support 100%.

I would hate to think that this, or any future government, would bin the SPCo just because they may get offered a deal that would make an extra few quid.

The knowledge and experience that the SPCo management and crews have is vital to the running of our ferries, so unless a "new" ferry operator is going to take on all the SPCo staff I think the whole idea of change is mad. ( even if the Gov. are just showing who is boss )

Oh dear.

 

 

Oh dear yourself.

 

Remember Manx Airlines? Most (probably not you though) look back fondly on an airline which was based around Manx needs,

not empty slots that no one else wanted.

 

Remember that when the Steam Packet has gone, when there is no local accountability and you are at the mercy of a big operator who has a

focus elsewhere.

 

There are benefits to having a ferry company serving us that is only interested in the Isle of Man.

 

the iomsp went years ago!! its debt is now owned by faceless bankers/wankers in LISBON. REPEAT THERE IS NO IOMSP.

 

Errrr, Fossils, do you think the other eight apparently interested companies are offering to do it for free?

 

Any private enterprise offering a service will be in it to make money - to pay for their running costs, to pay their staff salaries, to invest in their ships, to maintain their ships and train their staff to meet marine standards...and, of course, to pay their shareholders.

 

I, for one, would rather have a local team of managers, local land based and (mostly) seagoing staff, who know and understand the Isle of Man, than an offshoot of larger non-local outfits who really are only in it for the cash. The vast majority of the Steam Packet staff, their families and friends are also actually reliant on the sea services themselves, which I should imagine focuses the mind somewhat!

 

Imagine the "no loo-rolls in Tesco" and the "can't get home for Christmas" scenarios playing out over here when the decisions to sail/move boats around etc are made from Ireland, the UK or further afield...

any new operator would have to operate under the same terms as the present LISBON wankers do.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Just automatically extending a contract doesn't happen in the real world with public services. Why should it be a closed shop if someone else could offer a better deal for IoM Gov and citizens? If after a tendering process the Steam Packet offer the best package and returns then everyone is a winner, business as usual. There may be a number of areas where they could sharpen their pencil but if there is no competition then why should they, more money flowing into their coffers to service their debts if so.

I'm currently doing a lot of work on the Clyde and Hebridean Ferry Services tendering process at the moment, different setup admittedly with regards subsidies but it does show you there are experienced companies of a sound financial backing out there willing to express an interest in operating ferry services, not a million miles away from here. So why not see what they have to offer?

 

 

I am not in favour of "just automatically extending" nor would I argue for that. My view is that if you are happy with a current service provider and having done your research they are happy to sign up to a new contract based on the terms that you require I do not see why open tendering is always requied. If you are not happy with the current provider it is different or you cannot agree terms it is different.

 

The reason why I am against automatically retendering is that I do not believe it necessarily produces the best results. If you are aware retendering is on the horizon you are not going to invest etc unless you know the outcome. Why would you try to continually expand and build a business up if you now somebody could come along shortly and reap the rewards of your effors. Basically in my view openly retendering does not necessarily provide an incentive for the provider to the best they can.

 

As I said I am not arguing for automatic extension just I believe that if parties are satisfied with the current provider then that provider should in effect get first refusal. As an example we have seen over the years various businesses establish succesful and good businesses from Govt owned property. When the lease was up they had to retender and they have lost out to a higher bidder with the result that costs have gone up to cover the higher bid and in many cases the standards have dropped. My view is that they should in such circumstances try and negotiate fair market terms the current provider is given the chance to accept and continue. If not then you retender.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

It's amazing in some ways that we even have a boat most days.

 

remember when the passenger boats only did one return trip each day in the winter (you're probably not that old) and a separate freight boat ? to have 2 round trips each day is amazing when you hear how few passengers are on many of them.

 

I would hate a service where the crew only speak Engrish :lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Just automatically extending a contract doesn't happen in the real world with public services. Why should it be a closed shop if someone else could offer a better deal for IoM Gov and citizens? If after a tendering process the Steam Packet offer the best package and returns then everyone is a winner, business as usual. There may be a number of areas where they could sharpen their pencil but if there is no competition then why should they, more money flowing into their coffers to service their debts if so.

I'm currently doing a lot of work on the Clyde and Hebridean Ferry Services tendering process at the moment, different setup admittedly with regards subsidies but it does show you there are experienced companies of a sound financial backing out there willing to express an interest in operating ferry services, not a million miles away from here. So why not see what they have to offer?

 

 

I am not in favour of "just automatically extending" nor would I argue for that. My view is that if you are happy with a current service provider and having done your research they are happy to sign up to a new contract based on the terms that you require I do not see why open tendering is always requied. If you are not happy with the current provider it is different or you cannot agree terms it is different.

 

The reason why I am against automatically retendering is that I do not believe it necessarily produces the best results. If you are aware retendering is on the horizon you are not going to invest etc unless you know the outcome. Why would you try to continually expand and build a business up if you now somebody could come along shortly and reap the rewards of your effors. Basically in my view openly retendering does not necessarily provide an incentive for the provider to the best they can.

 

As I said I am not arguing for automatic extension just I believe that if parties are satisfied with the current provider then that provider should in effect get first refusal. As an example we have seen over the years various businesses establish succesful and good businesses from Govt owned property. When the lease was up they had to retender and they have lost out to a higher bidder with the result that costs have gone up to cover the higher bid and in many cases the standards have dropped. My view is that they should in such circumstances try and negotiate fair market terms the current provider is given the chance to accept and continue. If not then you retender.

 

 

The same arguments about not wanting to invest for fear of someone else stepping in soon have a flip side. If you're on a nice long contract which is being extended with no competition where is the incentive to spend more money, unless it is a contractual obligation? Privatisation has it's pros and cons, they key is to get the best possible people from suitably qualified backgrounds to manage the whole process, so both parties get a mutually beneficial deal out of the agreement. Alas, looking at our government, is where we may(will) fall down.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

The same arguments about not wanting to invest for fear of someone else stepping in soon have a flip side. If you're on a nice long contract which is being extended with no competition where is the incentive to spend more money, unless it is a contractual obligation? Privatisation has it's pros and cons, they key is to get the best possible people from suitably qualified backgrounds to manage the whole process, so both parties get a mutually beneficial deal out of the agreement. Alas, looking at our government, is where we may(will) fall down.

 

 

The incentive to spend more money is that it will produce the best return. Businesses do not invest or spend money without the expectation it will produce results. I agree that the there must be a contract that is mutually beneficial and I have grave doubts abouts our governments ability to negotiate contracts and more importantly spot loopholes etc. I just disagree that automatically retendering is always the right option. In this case it may be but I am not totally sure. I have a concern that we get to a point when we all other parties have pulled out or are not interested in formally tendering and at that point the remaining Co has the Govt over a barrell as there is no competition. Sometimes it is better to negotiate with a current supplier whilst letting them be aware that unless they come up with something acceptable you will place out to tender.

 

I am not saying it is wrong to put out to tender just that it is not automatically the best option in my view

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...