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Hospital Cleaning - Any Insights?


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Lots of noise on the radio about the 12-week trial given to G4S to do deep cleaning in Nobles, and I hear some disturbing rumours which maybe some of you can confirm or deny....

 

Was G4S the only company invited to quote for this trial?

 

Is it true that they were selected because of their recent experience doing deep cleaning of prison cells & police cells?

 

Is it true that they recently lost that Prison / Police contract due to unsatisfactory performance?

 

Seems to me that aside from the obvious procurement governance issues here, market distortion, unfair advantage if this trial is successful and a "proper" tender is issued for deep cleaning at Nobles etc., that a contractor allegedly recently sacked for unsatisfactory performance in cleaning prison cells would probably not be the best choice for deep cleaning a hospital where hygiene is literally a matter of life or death. It would be deeply worrying if these rumours were true.

 

Can anyone confirm or deny these disturbing rumours?

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And disrupt their routines? Isn't that what the G4S thing is designed to avoid?   I thought the regular staff were complaining but maybe they like the problem rather than the solution.

Presumably they don't have the staff to cope, that's why this is being implemented.   This move is probably better for the environment of the hospital and the safety of all. Worth the possible extra

wonderful , a government not fit for purpose is going to look at something else that may need replacing??

Lots of noise on the radio about the 12-week trial given to G4S to do deep cleaning in Nobles, and I hear some disturbing rumours which maybe some of you can confirm or deny....

 

Was G4S the only company invited to quote for this trial?

 

Is it true that they were selected because of their recent experience doing deep cleaning of prison cells & police cells?

 

Is it true that they recently lost that Prison / Police contract due to unsatisfactory performance?

 

Seems to me that aside from the obvious procurement governance issues here, market distortion, unfair advantage if this trial is successful and a "proper" tender is issued for deep cleaning at Nobles etc., that a contractor allegedly recently sacked for unsatisfactory performance in cleaning prison cells would probably not be the best choice for deep cleaning a hospital where hygiene is literally a matter of life or death. It would be deeply worrying if these rumours were true.

 

Can anyone confirm or deny these disturbing rumours?

 

Its the Isle of Man, and this is might be what we call a "Manx Muddle" ... Move along, nothing here ...

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According to the Examiner story a department of health statement said that G4S were given this contract only after staff had flagged up concern to management the issue of disruption and strain this work places on already full schedules for Normal duties?

 

According to staff ,the in house cleaners had this situation well under control having carried out the work since the hospitals opening.

 

Depends who you believe really!

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It should have gone out to tender, even if it was on a temporary basis to alleviate some of the pressure.

Alleviate the pressure? Lets say there's an outbreak of MRSA or c-diff, and a ward has to shut down for a deep clean, how long will it take for a cleaning team to be assembled and on site? Would it not be more quicker to get a team from within?

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It should have gone out to tender, even if it was on a temporary basis to alleviate some of the pressure.

Alleviate the pressure? Lets say there's an outbreak of MRSA or c-diff, and a ward has to shut down for a deep clean, how long will it take for a cleaning team to be assembled and on site? Would it not be more quicker to get a team from within?

I can't answer that as I do not know, but all I'm saying is that G4S were given the contract to do it albeit on a temporary basis, without going through the correct tender procedure.

If hospital staff are unable to do this and confirmed by the unions that staff do not have sufficient time to do this, then it should have gone out to tender and not designated to one specific company, regardless if they had the manpower and resources to do so.

It was a tad naughty IMO and the question I would ask is to who and why this decision was made to pick the one company without asking others?

Edited by manxy
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The regular House-keepers are hard pushed sometimes. When any area needs a 'deep-clean' it increases the workload and turn-around time. Rather than employ new permanent staff it has to be more cost-effective to bring a company in to do the extra work-load; it stands to reason. The sub-contractor says it'll be done in x amount of time, will cost y, and z- less disruption to the daily routine. Apart from keeping the place clean the House-keepers prepare the breakfasts, lunches, evening meal and serve the food also. If they had to undertake a 'deep-clean' too it would cause mayhem to the shift-patterns and there may be a greater risk of cross-contamination.

 

It's not an easy job, contrary to what some like to believe.

 

@johnquayleiom, you must've been hallucinating, either that or you're a shit-stirring liar....

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In my opinion the house-keeping staff do an excellent job - Noble's is a much cleaner hospital than ones I've worked in in the UK. Quilp has it spot on, from what I've heard. Infection control policies (and we all agree with those, for patient safety) mean that once a patient who's had a certain infection, such as MRSA, vacates a bed, then the room or the bay has to be 'deep cleaned' to prevent cross infection for the next occupant. If there's very little slack in the system for the in-house cleaning staff then there can be delays to getting this done which affects patient throughput, and leads to bed crises etc. Contrary to some of the comments in the other thread, Noble's is not generally under-utilised, at least in terms of its bed occupancy rates, and if a 4 bedded bay is unavailable because it is waiting to be cleaned it can have a knock-on effect for the rest of the hospital.

 

I have no idea if G4S were simply given the job or had to compete for it.

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Sometimes it is better to just award a contract to a contractor without going through a tender procedure if time is tight. I would imagine this was the case here, it is the only reason that could be justified when the sh1t hits the fan and the questions start being asked in Tynwald by the usual suspects.

 

It will not be a licence to print money for G4S as the departments will have on recored the normal costs for supplying cleaning staff from umpteen other government contracts. The government have a contract procurement department who will have looked over the rates submitted by G4S and as they are doing the work I would say that their rates were competitive.

 

Dont forget that going out to tender for something, and especially something short term, has costs, quite substantial in some cases, when someone has to produce a specification, tender documents and tender form. Not only costly but time consuming and as I said this appears to have been something that has required a quick appointment.

 

No one or no company is getting rich on the back of this.

 

It does need to go out to tender and I am sure it will as they cant do anything else really as cleaning is not exactly something that needs highly specialised employees or training.

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Sometimes it is better to just award a contract to a contractor without going through a tender procedure if time is tight. I would imagine this was the case here, it is the only reason that could be justified when the sh1t hits the fan and the questions start being asked in Tynwald by the usual suspects.

 

It will not be a licence to print money for G4S as the departments will have on recored the normal costs for supplying cleaning staff from umpteen other government contracts. The government have a contract procurement department who will have looked over the rates submitted by G4S and as they are doing the work I would say that their rates were competitive.

 

Dont forget that going out to tender for something, and especially something short term, has costs, quite substantial in some cases, when someone has to produce a specification, tender documents and tender form. Not only costly but time consuming and as I said this appears to have been something that has required a quick appointment.

 

No one or no company is getting rich on the back of this.

 

It does need to go out to tender and I am sure it will as they cant do anything else really as cleaning is not exactly something that needs highly specialised employees or training.

 

 

You're wrong about it not being highly specialised. Some infectious contaminents need different procedures to eradicate them as one infection can be much harder to eradicate than another. Not just a swirl with a duster or soapy-water. It's considerably less simple than you're assuming, for it to be completely effective.

 

It should be seen and treated as a science, not just as a remedial measure.

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Sometimes it is better to just award a contract to a contractor without going through a tender procedure if time is tight. I would imagine this was the case here, it is the only reason that could be justified when the sh1t hits the fan and the questions start being asked in Tynwald by the usual suspects.

 

It will not be a licence to print money for G4S as the departments will have on recored the normal costs for supplying cleaning staff from umpteen other government contracts. The government have a contract procurement department who will have looked over the rates submitted by G4S and as they are doing the work I would say that their rates were competitive.

 

Dont forget that going out to tender for something, and especially something short term, has costs, quite substantial in some cases, when someone has to produce a specification, tender documents and tender form. Not only costly but time consuming and as I said this appears to have been something that has required a quick appointment.

 

No one or no company is getting rich on the back of this.

 

It does need to go out to tender and I am sure it will as they cant do anything else really as cleaning is not exactly something that needs highly specialised employees or training.

 

You really must work for government with an attitude like that. No one got rich off the back of cleaning contracts? I could drive you past several multi million pound houses here that prove different. As for time being an excuse for not going to tender, or your "assumption" that the rates must have been competitive if they got the job - how would you know what's a competitive rate or not if nobody else tendered?

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You're wrong about it not being highly specialised. Some infectious contaminents need different procedures to eradicate them as one infection can be much harder to eradicate than another. Not just a swirl with a duster or soapy-water. It's considerably less simple than you're assuming, for it to be completely effective.

It should be seen and treated as a science, not just as a remedial measure.

 

I did not know that but that just makes the non tendered appointment of G4S even more sensible if this was needed quick.

 

I would imagine that they have the in house experience to know what needs doing.

 

ETA. hboy, they will have the going rates for cleaning from other contracts, I am sure that this is not the first time the government have employed a cleaning contractor.......................................

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