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madmanxpilot

The Future Of Core Air Links To The Island

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I doubt that a significant percentage of the island's GDP is down to people who are going to be nervously counting the number of days they spend in the UK.

 

Correct. What this is though is another minus when comparing the IOM to other places when starting or relocating a business.

 

Add lack of red-eye flights to:

  • House prices (albeit gently falling maybe)
  • Utilities
  • Night-life
  • F**king weather :(
  • Etc.

There are good plus points but you don't want any more negative ones.

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its gone up to 180 days again anyway, it was 183, then down to 90 etc (length of time you can stay in the UK without being tax resident)

 

My use of air transport is a mix of business and pleasure

 

pleasure; its a pain to get anywhere via low cost carriers from Liverpool or Gatwick as both flybe and easyjet don't leave in the afternoon at a time to connect with teatime departures and in the morning they leave to late to catch the early departures, so outward its almost always last flight out, overnight and catch the plane departing at between 5am and 7 am and coming back the 19.30 departure generally means a good connection from wherever or if its late arriving an overnight.

 

To catch teatime departures from almost anywhere now means leaving here at between 11.00 and 13.00 and a long stop over for the connection. having planes not based here wont make a lot of difference

 

Business however is something I do up to 20 or 30 times a year and unless I am going onwards a day trip via City was my preferred option. City left here later but got me to the City and legal London quicker and cheaper than via Gatwick, Gatwick Express and Victoria and the return from City gave me an hour longer before having to set off from central London to the airport.

 

I hate Gatwick and the transfer into Victoria and then on.

 

For me day trips are better. If I am seeing clients, counsel, other solicitors or experts I want to do that in a day. I may be attending a board meeting. I charge an hourly rate, which I pass on to clients. If I'm in London losing an evening at home and having an overnight stay I miss office working and billing time or have to pass the costs on or take a loss. I also miss family life

 

I was down not so long ago to see an actuary, economist, investment adviser and a QC. Left home 06.30 back at home 18.00 via City 5 hour meeting and only an hour wasted with nothing to do. Traveling time was 3 hours 30 out and 3 return (6.5 hours) so day length was 12.5 hours, A few weeks later I had to repeat via Gatwick. Leave home 05.30 and back 21.30 so day length was 16 hours; travel and transfer time was 8.5 hours, waiting/wasted time was 2.5 hours and the working time stayed at 5 hours; significantly more travel and wasted time and a much longer and more wearing day

 

If I cant get off the rock until 09.00 to either Gatwick or City next year and the return departs at 17.00 I wont be able to do a days work in London. I shall have to go down the evening before and if the meeting goes on beyond 14.00 wont be able to get back via Gatwick the next day. Its a lot of extra expense and time

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The ideal scenario would be if Easyjet could take over the red eye and late return slot to Gatwick. Good capacity in the A319 and then the problem is solved. Having a late return means that the aircraft would be on the ground here and ready for the morning flight.

 

Sorry, the thread is too long to check if this has been covered before.

Why does it not suit Easyjet's business model? They already fly the route, just at different times. The plane would be full both ways, no real need for a second return flight during the day.

Do you really think there is enough demand for that capacity every day on the early morning flight? Serious question.

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Serious answer - no if relying on 'the business community' per se but probably if the Manx Punter can get a £60 return to Gatwick even if it does mean getting up at 5 am.

 

Ah! Captains Bridson and Quine to the fore, no doubt, to see the Tangerine Dream and beg for support.

 

To date the government have shown no interest in 'state' involvement in an airline; I wonder if the 'we're as Manx as the hills' (which the aforementioned gentlemen are) will get the sympathy vote from the parish council?

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Serious answer - no if relying on 'the business community' per se but probably if the Manx Punter can get a £60 return to Gatwick even if it does mean getting up at 5 am.

 

Ah! Captains Bridson and Quine to the fore, no doubt, to see the Tangerine Dream and beg for support.

 

To date the government have shown no interest in 'state' involvement in an airline; I wonder if the 'we're as Manx as the hills' (which the aforementioned gentlemen are) will get the sympathy vote from the parish council?

Not many Manx hills on the Wirral.

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The ideal scenario would be if Easyjet could take over the red eye and late return slot to Gatwick. Good capacity in the A319 and then the problem is solved. Having a late return means that the aircraft would be on the ground here and ready for the morning flight.

 

Sorry, the thread is too long to check if this has been covered before.

Why does it not suit Easyjet's business model? They already fly the route, just at different times. The plane would be full both ways, no real need for a second return flight during the day.

Do you really think there is enough demand for that capacity every day on the early morning flight? Serious question.

 

I've had cause to be on a few "red-eyes" in recent months. The last was about 3 weeks ago, there were 28 people on the flight.

 

A couple of years back it would have been jammed full of "suits" off to Head Office for the day. Sign of the times?

 

No way can any airline afford to be operating four rotations a day with the current sort of numbers. Fuel, landing fees, engineering, wages, leasing costs - and some flights with less than 30 passengers on board? Could anybody make that work?

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The ideal scenario would be if Easyjet could take over the red eye and late return slot to Gatwick. Good capacity in the A319 and then the problem is solved. Having a late return means that the aircraft would be on the ground here and ready for the morning flight.

 

Sorry, the thread is too long to check if this has been covered before.

Why does it not suit Easyjet's business model? They already fly the route, just at different times. The plane would be full both ways, no real need for a second return flight during the day.
Do you really think there is enough demand for that capacity every day on the early morning flight? Serious question.

Probably not an Easyjet size plane. Plus Gatwick slots at that time in a morning are prime time, IoM flights won't hit enough capacity. A BA to London City day return is about right daily.

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The ideal scenario would be if Easyjet could take over the red eye and late return slot to Gatwick. Good capacity in the A319 and then the problem is solved. Having a late return means that the aircraft would be on the ground here and ready for the morning flight.

 

Sorry, the thread is too long to check if this has been covered before.

Why does it not suit Easyjet's business model? They already fly the route, just at different times. The plane would be full both ways, no real need for a second return flight during the day.
Do you really think there is enough demand for that capacity every day on the early morning flight? Serious question.

I've had cause to be on a few "red-eyes" in recent months. The last was about 3 weeks ago, there were 28 people on the flight.

 

A couple of years back it would have been jammed full of "suits" off to Head Office for the day. Sign of the times?

 

No way can any airline afford to be operating four rotations a day with the current sort of numbers. Fuel, landing fees, engineering, wages, leasing costs - and some flights with less than 30 passengers on board? Could anybody make that work?

There are no longer many 'suits' flying to head office because to be brutally honest head office isn't that interested in what is going on in the IOM anymore - because the IOM office, if you're a bank, life office, or fiduciary business is probably costing them money and being a logistical pain in the ass.

 

Most of the director and senior management, or mobile management/sales roles have been moved back to the UK, or down to Jersey or Guernsey, where its still easy to fly into London, and what's left here is an expensive pain in the ass administration centre that's being cost managed by a caretaker sent over by head office - and every year the Group CFO just runs the IOM office balance sheet down and pushes it more into run off.

 

We let the prime influencers leave years ago to go off and do other stuff somewhere else because it was clear that other places were more interested in listening to them.

 

Just wait until FATCA and IOM Disclosure comes in and these places go from being an operational and financial pain in the ass to a liability and risk pain in the ass and the shit will really start to hit the fan.

Edited by thesultanofsheight
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It would interesting to know how price sensitive business travelers are when it comes to the early/late flights. i.e. if these particular flights are of such vital importance, would customers be prepared to pay more - hence generating a profit even with reduced passenger numbers?

 

I know that we often whinge about the cost of everything - but it's a market, and there has to be some elasticity. Personally, when I need to do a day-trip to London for business purposes I'd be prepared to pay more for the flight to avoid the cost of a couple of hotel nights. i.e. if the cost of the accommodation is going to be (say) at least £150, presumably we would be prepared to pay an additional £100 for the flight and avoid the night stops?

 

If this is the case, then perhaps there is an opportunity for somebody to provide a 'premium' service with a smaller aircraft at a higher price for the business community - and let Easyjet serve the leisure traveler at less convenient times. Or even for Flybe to overnight an aircraft (and crew) or the IOM even if they don't have a base here.

 

Micky

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I'd rather have

It would interesting to know how price sensitive business travelers are when it comes to the early/late flights. i.e. if these particular flights are of such vital importance, would customers be prepared to pay more - hence generating a profit even with reduced passenger numbers?

 

I know that we often whinge about the cost of everything - but it's a market, and there has to be some elasticity. Personally, when I need to do a day-trip to London for business purposes I'd be prepared to pay more for the flight to avoid the cost of a couple of hotel nights. i.e. if the cost of the accommodation is going to be (say) at least £150, presumably we would be prepared to pay an additional £100 for the flight and avoid the night stops?

 

If this is the case, then perhaps there is an opportunity for somebody to provide a 'premium' service with a smaller aircraft at a higher price for the business community - and let Easyjet serve the leisure traveler at less convenient times. Or even for Flybe to overnight an aircraft (and crew) or the IOM even if they don't have a base here.

 

 

 

Micky

I'd rather have the time in London than get torn a new one by the flight cost!

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The ideal scenario would be if Easyjet could take over the red eye and late return slot to Gatwick. Good capacity in the A319 and then the problem is solved. Having a late return means that the aircraft would be on the ground here and ready for the morning flight.

 

Sorry, the thread is too long to check if this has been covered before.

 

 

Why does it not suit Easyjet's business model? They already fly the route, just at different times. The plane would be full both ways, no real need for a second return flight during the day.

 

 

Do you really think there is enough demand for that capacity every day on the early morning flight? Serious question.

 

 

I really don't know the answer to be perfectly honest, but I imagine say, one 7.00am outward and one 19.45 return on an Airbus A319 would be sufficient. Those wishing to do business on the island would need to spend a night here, thereby giving a boost to the hotel trade!

The government could underwrite 75% capacity of these two flights, which should never cost anything.

Give up on the mid day slots if we have to, unless there is a business case for them?

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Those wishing to do business on the island would need to spend a night here, thereby giving a boost to the hotel trade!

clearly you would have to build nice hotel first..........

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clearly you would have to build nice hotel first..........

 

Don't the gov already own one .... or, at least, have their fingers in a 'hotel' pie ....

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Easy jet wouldn't want to employ crew here or accomodate them. A twice a day rotation to Gatwick means the plane idle from 10 until 5 unless they use it for mid morning, middays and mid afternoon to Liverpool and Manchester

 

If they station a plane here that's effectively a base needs facilities and with leave, working hours and sickness cover a lot of crew

 

Remember easy fly many of the planes up to 18 or 20 hours a day, first out at 6am final return touch down midnight

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Easy are not the answer to our problems, quite simply for much of what we would like we do not fit their business model. Terry Liddiard talks a lot of sense when he says we really should not lose the skills of the staff we have on the island. There needs to be some "thinking outside the box " for a sustainable way forward and I have no confidence whatsoever that our current management team have any of the entrepreneurial abilities required !

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