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Mass Civil Disobedience - Legality And Implications

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I will keep my powder dry until there is something really worth protesting about -say, voter apathy (we voted this 'bunch' in), local and central Govt reform etc.

 

Until then ill cough up my £1 a week for my household of 4 adults and one child.

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Worth reading Sam Norris Manx Memories and Movements about the 1914 -18 rates riots when Douglas corporation tried to sell up rates defaulters by coroners auctions ( mainly boarding house keepers who had lost their income) and the bread riots that lead to introduction of income tax, bread subsidy ( bread in UK was subsidised and the cost here was twice as much) and the introduction of Old Age Pensions.

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Oooooh its exciting. I like to behave myself but I'm not overly keen on bossy people.

 

Could we wait until it's warmer until we occupy Derby square, please? (that did make me laugh, occupy Derby square in a tent, ace!)

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Can't we just over power Tynwald and stick in MF members, as much as it pains me to say some people here seem pretty switched on.

 

Does this mean private landlords will be hiking up the rents to cover this new cost?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience

 

Hopefully people might know what the situation would be and can explain it from an individual protester's aspect if say many thousands of people refused to pay a charge implemented by the Government......

 

wink.png

 

 

 

It couldn't (and shouldn't) be a mass thing. People will probably individually choose whether they want to pay up or not and to be honest you don't even have to not pay - just pissing them about for a few months and then paying up as the summons arrives 1). Stifles the water boards cashflow on its much needed extra revenue and 2). Makes it incur collection costs well in excess of the £50 charge.

 

So there's no need to risk a fine or imprisonment. Just dick them about and make them fork out more than £50 chasing your debt.

 

Also bear in mind that legally they can't cut your water off. Any other utility yes, but not water so what are they going to do other than send you a nasty letter threatening you with a summons? Nothing. They can't disconnect your bog, or stop supplying water to your house.

 

I'm not advocating civil disobedience at all, and would never suggest this as a solution, but looking at it logically/legally by taking a tax in this way they have hardly any way of enforcing your compliance other than threatening you with going to court. If you pay in cash on the day before your court date you just successfully ensure that it costs them about £500 in admin and legal costs to get £50 out of you.

 

Ultimately, is 'them' who pay? Or us, in the long run...?

Well of course its us who pays, but it might deter them from making fucking stupid decisions again as it will mean they'll have to find a saving elsewhere.
SS, I think your plan is flawed in as much as Quilp says, it's a bit of an own goal really and fails to clearly deliver the message.

And I think you're just another internet warrior full of crap. You're happy to spout off on here but think any act of protest is futile if it adds to more public sector costs?

 

Just how, then, do you think that anyone will ever do anything about any of this. Post strong words on here? Ooooh that's really getting back at them. Maybe I want to consider not paying maybe I will take the above option just because it will piss off some head of department somewhere along the line. I couldn't care if it means I pay a little bit more in the long run as its better than doing nothing. If it costs them £500 to call in the extra £50 from me that's fine in my book.

Edited by thesultanofsheight

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Won't someone think of the book keepers? I totes packed it in 5 years ago, what a shitty, the worst, ball achey, chasing debt while being chased for debts pile of toss bookkeeping turned into when the world started running out of money.

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I won't be paying and I will likely be taking the action above just because it will piss off some tinpot little asshole in accounts somewhere along the line. I couldn't care if it means I pay a little bit more in the long run as its better than doing nothing. If it costs them £500 to call in the extra £50 from me that's fine in my book.

 

Lightweight; I take it your'e not coming to the riot then?

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I won't be paying and I will likely be taking the action above just because it will piss off some tinpot little asshole in accounts somewhere along the line. I couldn't care if it means I pay a little bit more in the long run as its better than doing nothing. If it costs them £500 to call in the extra £50 from me that's fine in my book.

 

Lightweight; I take it your'e not coming to the riot then?

 

If a riot was ever on the cards I'd be there. But as its just a bunch of needle dicks and internet warriors kicking off on here about following through on something they haven't got the guts to follow through on then I'll maybe consider my own ways of protest thanks.

 

As John W points out. Read up on the past if you really want a parallel for how apathetic and useless this current generation is. We'll all take it lying down (or more specifically sitting down - on the bog!). And when they get away with that they'll think they can just bring another stupid tax in as nobody did anything but dutifully pay the last one.

Edited by thesultanofsheight
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As I understand it the £50 will be collected as part of the rates bill and as most people I assume pay monthly the amount decided by the rating authority, to choose to pay less than this amount will render the occupant liable to paying the entire amount for the year immediately. Alternatively for those more fortunate souls who pay in one lump sum, any deduction of the £50 will mean they will lose the early payment discount as the bill hasn't been paid in full.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe this means any idea of people withholding the £50 is a non-starter.

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Do you have to pay more if you pay monthly? That is a mental way to pay anything.

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I will keep my powder dry until there is something really worth protesting about -say, voter apathy (we voted this 'bunch' in), local and central Govt reform etc.

 

Until then ill cough up my £1 a week for my household of 4 adults and one child.

But how do you feel about the same charge being raised for a single pensioner,aren't they effectively subsidising your household?

 

ETA: The issue here isn't that they need more revenue,but the inequitable way it's being applied.

Edited by Lisenchuk
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As I understand it the £50 will be collected as part of the rates bill and as most people I assume pay monthly the amount decided by the rating authority, to choose to pay less than this amount will render the occupant liable to paying the entire amount for the year immediately. Alternatively for those more fortunate souls who pay in one lump sum, any deduction of the £50 will mean they will lose the early payment discount as the bill hasn't been paid in full.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe this means any idea of people withholding the £50 is a non-starter.

Who pays any utility bill monthly? Its mad. Why give them a quarters or a years free cash flow if they aren't prepared to give you a discount for paying monthly? The money is better off in my account and yes I may well consider settling my bill less £50 and see what they do. If they opt to recover it from me through summons then it will cost them more than £50 to do that. Do give a toss? No.

Edited by thesultanofsheight

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As I understand it the £50 will be collected as part of the rates bill and as most people I assume pay monthly the amount decided by the rating authority, to choose to pay less than this amount will render the occupant liable to paying the entire amount for the year immediately. Alternatively for those more fortunate souls who pay in one lump sum, any deduction of the £50 will mean they will lose the early payment discount as the bill hasn't been paid in full.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe this means any idea of people withholding the £50 is a non-starter.

I read through the thread thinking to post in the same vein and you beat me to it. Most will pay because they don't want to lose the "discount". Hell of a bad, regressive tax though and there should be some kind of protest. Particularly when they see fit to chuck pay rises around at the same time. I consider that a gross lack of respect for those they are supposed to be serving.

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As I understand it the £50 will be collected as part of the rates bill and as most people I assume pay monthly the amount decided by the rating authority, to choose to pay less than this amount will render the occupant liable to paying the entire amount for the year immediately. Alternatively for those more fortunate souls who pay in one lump sum, any deduction of the £50 will mean they will lose the early payment discount as the bill hasn't been paid in full.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe this means any idea of people withholding the £50 is a non-starter.

Who pays any utility bill monthly? Its mad. Why give them a quarters or a years free cash flow if they aren't prepared to give you a discount for paying monthly? The money is better off in my account and yes I will settle my bill less £50 and see what they do. If they opt to recover it from me through summonse then it will cost them more than £50 to do that. Do give a toss? No.

 

I think you are over-reacting.

Maybe, because you are the 'Sultan of Shite', you think they should have asked for your advice before going ahead?

Apologies if that has already been said

 

Why not pay by weight the same as proposed for wheelie bins?

Apologies if that has already been said

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zero fucks have been given from my yurt in re proposed toilet tax.

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