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slinkydevil

David Knight not nominated in Manx Sports Awards

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Well, looking at the size of them both physically it wouldn't be much of a contest...

 

Especially if you add in that one has to wear lycra all the time. Can't be good for the old johnson.

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I'm still wondering why not a single one of his supporters nominated him. Can it really be that every one of them didn't bothered because they thought someone already had done so? And why didn't the folks who nominated the other sports people think the same? If it were true then surely no-one would have nominated.

 

All the support he's now getting on FB but not single one picked up the phone?

 

were you aware of the ability to nominate or this thing even being open to nominations before all this cafuffle?

 

I wasn't

 

not that I was going to nominate DK mind you...

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The point you are missing though is that Knight and John McGuiness don't compete in the same race. David Knight will never win the TT or Moto GP because he doesn't compete in them. Cav does race against the likes of Wiggins & he does compete in the TDF so your comparisons are rubbish.

 

To you the TDF is like a mixture of the TT, Moto GP and enduro. The FACT is though it is a stand alone event & road cyclists do compete in all of it and somebody wins it every year, some are successful enough to win it a number of times.

 

This is the ignorance of the sport that I alluded to earlier. Wiggins, Contador, Armstrong et al would not have a chance of winning the points classifications that Cavendish has won in all three grand tours. Not a hope. They wouldn't be able to win the number of individual stages in the race that Cavendish does. I've explained it to you, you choose to ignore it - that's wilful ignorance.

 

 

>A closer comparison would be Knighter speciallising in perhaps particularly rocky courses and being poor at muddy ones or something similar as many enduro riders are - the FACT is though he is an excellent all rounder, unlike Cavendish.

 

Again, that's down to your ignorance of cycling. Cavendish has a world championship title in track cycling - a completely different discipline to the one he's made his fame and fortune in. Pretty clear sign of an all rounder. He completes the mountain stages and time trials in the TDF within the time cut offs, something somebody like Chris Hoy wouldn't be able to. He is an excellent all rounder when compared to an outright sprint specialist like Hoy. The points classification goes to the most consistent finisher. You cannot win it without being an all rounder. You cannot even compete for it without being an all rounder.

 

 

The prestige of different events within the Enduro world is always open to discussion. They success Knight has had in ALL of them is not. He has beaten Juha Saliminen several time in places like Erzberg etc. however in the World championship they rode in different classes meaning they didn't face each other, again that may not suit your arguement but it's a FACT not made up.

As for the GNCC I suspect the fact that they both rode for the same factory team led to them not being there at the same time.

 

I am struggling to understand the prestige of the Enduro world championships. I don't know anything about it other than what I've read on wiki. But it looks like Juha Saliminen won an "overall championship" several years in a row - wasn't David Knight competing for that title? And just how important can these titles be to them when they can't be bothered defending them?

 

Cavandish has only won the points classification once, hardly dominating the sub category of his discipline is it. If you wish to view TDF results squinting while standing on your head to make his results look like world domination, then you are welcome - just realise that the ignorance is your own, not anyone who doesn't follow your convoluted criteria.

 

Staying on the subject of ignorance the "overall championship" in Enduro has not been competed for many years & was not competed while Knighter was on his World Championship winning run. I think it is safe to assume though that winning every single round of a world championship season would have been enough to secure it.

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Another assumption. Would he have won it if that other bloke could be bothered competing?

Edited by Mr. Sausages

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Who is most successful is hardly the point in this instance - so I don't really think this kind of pissing contest is solving anything.

The simple fact is that most of the public in the IoM - and the rest of the UK - have little awareness of what Enduro is. At the very least, it needs to obtain a higher profile and, if we're talking about awards that are nominated or voted on by the general public, the biggest of them is the BBC Sports Personality of the year.

Know any Manx sportsmen who've won it? Know any others who've been nominated?

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Simple test. If David Knight is the most succesfil IoM sportsman you would expect many of the public to know who he is. Take a simple mug shot of him and say Cavendish down Strand Street and lunch time and see how many recognise each. I know where my money would be.

 

To measure success you have in my opinion to take into account the sport and the prestige. You might win the world tiddly wink championship or the World Freshwater Angling Championship for 10 years in succession but as a sporting achievment I would rank that way behind winning 1 bronze medal in the 100m at the Olympics. The Tour de France is the worlds biggest annual sporting event. It has a worldwide TV audience of 3.5 Billion, broadcasts to nearly 190 countries, has about 2,000 journalists following it. Winning a category in that is in my mind one hell of achievment. and far outweighs in my view many world champion categories in what many would see as minority or niche sports.

That's exactly what I meant when I asked you the context of your world travel experience (which you have still not answered). To ask people in Strand Street at dinner time is not an accurate cross section of the kind of people who maybe involved in Enduro racing. Without over generalising and obviously there will be exceptions, if you picked 10 enduro racers and/or fans not many of them would work in offices in the middle of Douglas.

Choose 10 lycra clad cyclists and most of them would, I suggest.

The dirty, smelly, noisey, dangerous world of Enduro doesn't go as well with wearing a suit & working in a clean air conditioned office as donning lycra to take some much needed exercise with your oakley sunglasses & carbon fibre posing machine each weekend does.

Obviously I may be wrong, and it is only an anecdotal opinion, however so is yours. You really need to look further than the end of your own nose when determining global popularity of a sport of your entire knowledge is gained from a Wikipedia page.

 

I understand the TDF is massive in terms of audience, I don't dispute that. I also know that Cav has never or never will win it. He has won a secondary category of it once & that's brilliant, he's won an incredible number of stages of it, fantastic, I take nothing away from him. But there are people in the world who are better than him at it. In his prime there was no one in the world better than Knighter, however you sub categorised his event and however popular you consider his sport to be in your ignorance - the whole world was free to better him & nobody did.

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Another assumption. Would he have won it if that other bloke could be bothered competing?

I assume you're talking of Salminen, who did compete at the same time.

 

I also assume you'd not rate Mike Tyson world title because he never fought Barry Maguigan?

Edited by Monkey boy

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Another assumption. Would he have won it if that other bloke could be bothered competing?

I assume you're talking of Salminen, who did compete at the same time.

 

Yeah that's the guy. According to wiki he dominated the world championships up to 2004, when he decided to move away from it, and he dominated GNCC for a couple of years. Knight's domination of each coincided with his departure of each.

 

Plus, you're using these two seemingly distinct competitions to prove his dominance, failing to realise that while one person dominates one event, another is dominating the other. So how can you claim that one of those people is "better" than the other? Not biased are you?

 

 

I also assume you'd not rate Mike Tyson world title because he never fought Barry Maguigan?

 

You mean, like you not rating a sprint cyclist's achievements against a GC cyclist's?

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Cavandish has only won the points classification once, hardly dominating the sub category of his discipline is it. If you wish to view TDF results squinting while standing on your head to make his results look like world domination, then you are welcome - just realise that the ignorance is your own, not anyone who doesn't follow your convoluted criteria.

 

To pick up on this from earlier. I used the points classifications as examples, amongst others, to disprove your FACT that he isn't an all rounder. Points classifications are not always won by sprinters. They often are, but they go to the most consistent finisher, not the best sprinter. Plus, it's true he has won one TDF points classification, but again you're ignoring his Giro and Vuelta points classifications. It's like saying Jack Nicklaus only has 3 majors because he only won the Open 3 times, ignoring the 15 others he won in the USA.

 

Sprinters are judged on stage wins. Nobody has won more than Cavendish during his career, and not many in history. You've already acknowledged that "Cav is undoubtedly the best in the world at sprinting", yet when I say it I'm apparently "squinting while standing on [my] head to make his results look like world domination". Make your mind up.

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Know any Manx sportsmen who've won it? Know any others who've been nominated?

I know! I know!

 

Is it Mark Cavendish?

Yes! You've won a FABULOUS prize - all you have to do is turn up at the MF birthday bash to collect it!

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Another assumption. Would he have won it if that other bloke could be bothered competing?

I assume you're talking of Salminen, who did compete at the same time.

 

Yeah that's the guy. According to wiki he dominated the world championships up to 2004, when he decided to move away from it, and he dominated GNCC for a couple of years. Knight's domination of each coincided with his departure of each.

 

Plus, you're using these two seemingly distinct competitions to prove his dominance, failing to realise that while one person dominates one event, another is dominating the other. So how can you claim that one of those people is "better" than the other? Not biased are you?

Well, Salminen has never won every round consecutively in a season. How does that sound for a way to judge Knighter as better?

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Fuck me, are you still fighting over which minority inbred has won the most minority sports? Give it a rest ffs

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