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slinkydevil

David Knight not nominated in Manx Sports Awards

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Cavandish has only won the points classification once, hardly dominating the sub category of his discipline is it. If you wish to view TDF results squinting while standing on your head to make his results look like world domination, then you are welcome - just realise that the ignorance is your own, not anyone who doesn't follow your convoluted criteria.

 

To pick up on this from earlier. I used the points classifications as examples, amongst others, to disprove your FACT that he isn't an all rounder. Points classifications are not always won by sprinters. They often are, but they go to the most consistent finisher, not the best sprinter. Plus, it's true he has won one TDF points classification, but again you're ignoring his Giro and Vuelta points classifications. It's like saying Jack Nicklaus only has 3 majors because he only won the Open 3 times, ignoring the 15 others he won in the USA.

 

Sprinters are judged on stage wins. Nobody has won more than Cavendish during his career, and not many in history. You've already acknowledged that "Cav is undoubtedly the best in the world at sprinting", yet when I say it I'm apparently "squinting while standing on [my] head to make his results look like world domination". Make your mind up.

I think you need to make up your mind - there are arguments all over this thread (although admittedly not directly from you) that road cycling is a much bigger sport than Enduro which makes Cav more successful. However when it is pointed out in terms of road cycling as a whole he is not as successful as many of his peers, the goal posts are narrowed and points classifications and sprinting is used to qualify his success. You can't have it both ways - he's more successful because his isn't a niche sport but only in his niche of his sport.

 

The distinction is easy to draw.

 

David Knight is much bigger & heavier Enduro rider than Juha Salminen & so he rides bigger bikes in a different class, they do not (often) compete.

 

Mike Tyson is much bigger & heavier Boxer than Barry Mcguigan & so boxes in a different class with bigger boxers. They did not compete.

 

Mark Cavendish is a road cyclist who rides in the same race on the same bikes as many other road cyclists. He is good at sprinting at the end of the stages and often wins a points classification designed to recognise the efforts the effort of cyclists like him who are good at sprinting because the generally don't win the race. Although he doesn't win the race he wins an impressive number of stages of the race.

 

Do you see the distinction?

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David Knight is much bigger & heavier Enduro rider than Juha Salminen & so he rides bigger bikes in a different class, they do not (often) compete.

 

Mike Tyson is much bigger & heavier Boxer than Barry Mcguigan & so boxes in a different class with bigger boxers. They did not compete.

 

Mark Cavendish is a road cyclist who rides in the same race on the same bikes as many other road cyclists. He is good at sprinting at the end of the stages and often wins a points classification designed to recognise the efforts the effort of cyclists like him who are good at sprinting because the generally don't win the race. Although he doesn't win the race he wins an impressive number of stages of the race.

 

Do you see the distinction?

 

It's you who is not seeing the distinctions in road cycling, but accepting them in other sports. I've already said, Cavendish is not competing with Wiggins et al. They acknowledge it. They're on the same billing, just like Tyson and McQuiggin could be, just like Knight and Salminen are, but they're not competing with each other. You just can't get your head around that.

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But they're in the same race, if Cav was good enough he could win it, there is nothing to stop him but his own ability. There is more than his own abilty stopping Mike Tyson knocking Barry Mcquigan out & there is more than his own ability stopping Knighter beating Juha - there is the small matter of them not taking part in the same competition.

I know very well Cav doesn't set out to win the TDF any more than Wiggins sets out to win the red jersey, it's not what either of them are good at, but the point is they ARE competing against each other in the same race, albeit with different priorities & different goals.

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You're almost there.

 

Heavyweights are a niche within boxing (nothing stopping them losing weight). E3 is a niche within enduro (nothing stopping them getting on a smaller bike). Sprinting is a niche within road cycling (nothing stopping them losing weight to go for the climbs instead).

 

The TDF and other grand tours just like to combine all of the niches within cycling into one easy to market package. Cycling does seem to be fairly unique in that respect.

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Very difficult to compare David Knight's achievements with Mark Cavendish's. Enduro like any motorsport requires your equipment to be the best and perfectly set up. Cycling probably does also but I imagine to a lesser extent.

 

Having said that, at the International Six Day's Enduro a few years ago, the Spanish and Italian teams were appealing to the FIM to cancel the final stage as they said it was impossible to ride it. David jumped on one of the Purple Helmets Honda 90 step thru's and cleared the course with no problem, making them look like fools!

 

I don't think the popularity or awareness of the sport should affect judgement, why would you nominate mediocre swimmers, athletes etc over people who are at the top of their sport?

 

Knighter and Cav are two amazing representatives of Island sport.

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