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Norville Rogers

PE Teacher announces work permit shake up

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As for protecting jobsworths, that's simply not true. The civil service is rife with jobsworths and most of them are from the UK. And before "Infrequent Observer" comes along, I am citing myself as the source of that claim. I've worked in enough departments in my time.

 

Well if you are the source, it must be true. After all your record of being straight, honest and truthful on these forums is beyond question.

 

I would ask how, in your short but varied CS career, you were able to 'know' who, out of all those in the CS, were comeovers and who were born here? Did you work in HR?

 

Just curious

IO

 

Maybe I did and maybe I didn't. Either way, the OHR is hardly able to ascertain figures on who is Manx or who is a "comeover" (a term I did not use), because the job application forms don't actually ask the applicants to specify. Nor do I see any reason why they would do so in future.

 

There are a variety of ways of knowing if a person is or isn't Manx. The most obvious way is to actually talk to people and find out.

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I'm of a similar mind Steve. The problem with protection is it's either difficult to enforce or provides positive discrimination for the locals and you end up with crap employees and rejecting good ones to appease legislation.There's definitely good reasons for protecting an indigenous workforce, a highly skilled migrant workforce is a huge risk as it'll bugger off at a moments notice. Doing that without holding business back is tough, and the employment market generally seems to be moving towards contractor specialists per project vs long term employees.I wish I had the answer.

Shock, horror......You normally do

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As for protecting jobsworths, that's simply not true. The civil service is rife with jobsworths and most of them are from the UK. And before "Infrequent Observer" comes along, I am citing myself as the source of that claim. I've worked in enough departments in my time.

 

Well if you are the source, it must be true. After all your record of being straight, honest and truthful on these forums is beyond question.

 

I would ask how, in your short but varied CS career, you were able to 'know' who, out of all those in the CS, were comeovers and who were born here? Did you work in HR?

 

Just curious

IO

Maybe I did and maybe I didn't. Either way, the OHR is hardly able to ascertain figures on who is Manx or who is a "comeover" (a term I did not use), because the job application forms don't actually ask the applicants to specify. Nor do I see any reason why they would do so in future.

 

There are a variety of ways of knowing if a person is or isn't Manx. The most obvious way is to actually talk to people and find out.

Some of your responses I agree with and some I don't, although I do respect them, however, on this occasion I neither agree nor respect your response...you may care or you may not.

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There are a variety of ways of knowing if a person is or isn't Manx. The most obvious way is to actually talk to people and find out.

Some of your responses I agree with and some I don't, although I do respect them, however, on this occasion I neither agree nor respect your response...you may care or you may not.

 

You don't agree or respect me for saying a good way to find out if someone is Manx is to actually talk to them? What planet are you on?

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There are a variety of ways of knowing if a person is or isn't Manx. The most obvious way is to actually talk to people and find out.

 

Some of your responses I agree with and some I don't, although I do respect them, however, on this occasion I neither agree nor respect your response...you may care or you may not.

You don't agree or respect me for saying a good way to find out if someone is Manx is to actually talk to them? What planet are you on?

In your own mind that may well be proficient, however, your particular take on what is 'Manx' is not the general consensus of thought, I base this on your posts from previous threads where you were met with discord.

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In your own mind that may well be proficient, however, your particular take on what is 'Manx' is not the general consensus of thought, I base this on your posts from previous threads where you were met with discord.

 

Yes, and every single time the issue of who is or isn't Manx is brought up, I am again and again libelously accused by morons like you of holding to beliefs which I simply do not, and never have, held. Why, only last week, I said an Indian from India -- or person of any ethnicity -- can come to the island and become Manx, yet here you are a week later back to inferring that I have controversial, no doubt racist, views on the matter. Or have I misunderstood you, and in fact you are taking issue with my inclusive and cosmopolitan belief that people of any origin can become Manx? Are you perhaps a racist who thinks only white people from the UK can become Manx, Matt?

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Judy, just for the record, I'm nothing to do with the work permit system, committee or appeal tribunal

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'met with discord'

 

Lolz

Made me chuckle too. A fabulous choice of words with just the merest hint of irony...and in the very best of company (?)

 

"Where there is discord may we bring harmony" from the late lady thatcher (1979)

 

Tbt

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In your own mind that may well be proficient, however, your particular take on what is 'Manx' is not the general consensus of thought, I base this on your posts from previous threads where you were met with discord.

Yes, and every single time the issue of who is or isn't Manx is brought up, I am again and again libelously accused by morons like you of holding to beliefs which I simply do not, and never have, held. Why, only last week, I said an Indian from India -- or person of any ethnicity -- can come to the island and become Manx, yet here you are a week later back to inferring that I have controversial, no doubt racist, views on the matter. Or have I misunderstood you, and in fact you are taking issue with my inclusive and cosmopolitan belief that people of any origin can become Manx? Are you perhaps a racist who thinks only white people from the UK can become Manx, Matt?

I'm unsure as to the right and proper definition of 'Manx', I do know that my children are Manx and that I am not.

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I'm unsure as to the right and proper definition of 'Manx', I do know that my children are Manx and that I am not.

 

I see no reason why not. If you are involving your own children in the Manx culture, and you're part of the island community, and care about its future, and want what's best for it, and respect it, and don't want to impose another culture on it, then you're Manx in my books.

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I'm unsure as to the right and proper definition of 'Manx', I do know that my children are Manx and that I am not.

I see no reason why not. If you are involving your own children in the Manx culture, and you're part of the island community, and care about its future, and want what's best for it, and respect it, and don't want to impose another culture on it, then you're Manx in my books.

TJ, all that you have mentioned are true, however, I am English. I love the Isle of Man and I consider it my home and would be more than happy to be considered Manx but as I say; I am English.

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John, I think you are being rather utopian to suggest "the system needs getting rid of completely", I for one would prefer to see the opposite, and have the work permit system strengthened to protect the employment rights and opportunities of the manx.

 

Let me suggest that if our work permit system had been operating stringently and effectively then Bus Vannin wouldn't be fronted by such blatant cronyism from across the Irish Sea. I can think of a few CE's and Director of.........s, that have arrived on our green hills by the sea and fxxxxd up, with us all thinking "surely to goodness a local could have done a better job"?

 

We have excellent resources of manx talent on this island in many areas, yet we seem to have this ingrained belief that if an individual has worked for a tin pot local authority in the UK, then he is more than qualified to work for our tin pot government.

The fault lies with the IOM government for not providing sufficient education and training opportunities for Manx workers to gain the recognised qualifications to fill the employment opportunities here, now and in the future.. It's cheaper to import people and just continue to churn out nursery nurses, garage mechanics and construction workers in the IOM College.

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TJ, all that you have mentioned are true, however, I am English. I love the Isle of Man and I consider it my home and would be more than happy to be considered Manx but as I say; I am English.

 

I meant Manx by nationality. Becoming Manx need not necessarily imply ceasing to be something else. Likewise, an Indian who becomes Manx would still be Indian.

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