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Flat Earth?


gerrydandridge
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2 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

I clicked on one of your flat earth debate videos Paul, the Isle of Man one and had a bit of a listen. Not much point in joining in my view, the people involved have their minds made up and are never ever going to listen to any other views. Ever tried convincing a mormon that they are wrong? It would be a bit like that, but not as polite.

They're not mine teepee! Its nathans show. Anyone is welcome to join the panel each day. Prove the ball thats it. No one has yet.

There are many people involved and the description you give doesnt match my experience of the show. Its usually pretty straight forward and amiable. It can get a bit messy when the rumpous is on though!

He is a bit religious about the subject and is the most obnoxious member to have ever joined the panel. He is a devout baller. Good you at least had a listen though.

tomorrow the debate rolls along, still waiting for that silver bullet to end this fe phenomena x

Edited by paul's got wright
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China you're givin it large in here gettin on 4 years. But when you are invited to join a dedicated debate, live daily, you pull the "below me" card. 

Astonishing. All they ask is that you provide scientific evidence. These are people that you consider to be stupid, yet you are unwilling to rationally put your case to them.

You will desperately try, in vain, to out do me somehow,  even though i know for a fact the earth isn't flat. Years of going round in circles with your nonsense and complete lack of definitive, verifiable proof.

But if you just joined the panel, surely in your mind, you will end the debate? Right?

So why spend 4 years failing here, when you could win the internet for "science" in about half an hour, live online???

The answer is that  you are not willing to face the genuine people, who question the heliocentric model you so dearly believe in. A mark of the man i would say china. You can give it but you do not like it up you.

and to that i would say, get it up you china. Get it right up you x

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Paul, I agree with China.  There is little point joining in on that channel.  Nathan and his friends are not going to change their views regardless of any evidence provided. 

There is no real debate.  It's just a group of people failing to understand science and the world in which we live, who cannot put forward a valid and testable hypothesis for how their model of the world works up against some very patient people who understand science and who put forward evidence and experiment that demonstrate that the earth is an oblate spheriod.

Going on that panel is akin to walking into a US Baptist church to make a case fot their being no god.  It's pointless...

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2 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

Paul, I agree with China.  There is little point joining in on that channel.  Nathan and his friends are not going to change their views regardless of any evidence provided. 

There is no real debate.  It's just a group of people failing to understand science and the world in which we live, who cannot put forward a valid and testable hypothesis for how their model of the world works up against some very patient people who understand science and who put forward evidence and experiment that demonstrate that the earth is an oblate spheriod.

Going on that panel is akin to walking into a US Baptist church to make a case fot their being no god.  It's pointless...

Fine but what are you basing your opinion on? China would be welcomed on and invited to provide any evidence he likes in any way he prefers.

Thats what they do with anyone who wants to join, its just a debate show.

I agree there is no debate about objective reality. But there most certainly is a flat/globe debate onlinevc where ballers come to argue their model. Just like china and many others have tried here.

To no avail.

I would say its the ballers who come on that are the least knowledgeable about the sciences, but in general the show is very informative. 

China has clearly demonstrated his ignorance of the scientific method here, so its a bit rich( kop out)  you pretending its the panel members who dont understand it. They certainly do, and have demonstrated this many times on the show. But you can deny reality all you like eminem.

Again you make the mistake of misjudging the point of the show. All they are doing is asking for proof of the ball. The burden of proof lays with the claimant, ie; prove the spinning ball earth.

No one has thats why its been goin over a year 2 shows a day.

To claim people have been on and provided scientific proof is simply not true emmy, unless you can provide us the link to the show that happened on? Id be very interested to see what it was and who offered it.

But i doubt you can back up that claim. Its more likely that you just believe it to be the case, without having actually verified it for yourself.

A bit like the belief system you currently hold so dearly as your world view x

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3 minutes ago, paul's got wright said:

Again you make the mistake of misjudging the point of the show. All they are doing is asking for proof of the ball. The burden of proof lays with the claimant, ie; prove the spinning ball earth.

Let's just address this point shall we?

The most widely held position is that the world is indeed a spinning oblate sphere and this is the model that is taught the world over.  There are plenty of books, scientific papers & journals over centuries which build up the evidence.  There are even photographs taken from space showing the planet as a globe and we can see other planets which are the same shape and follow similar orbits around the sun.

The claimants therefore are not the so called "ballers" but the flat earthers.  The burden of proof is on the proponents for a flat earth as they are the ones challenging the established and widely understood and accepted evidence that the world is an oblate spheroid. 

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1 minute ago, manxman1980 said:

Let's just address this point shall we?

The most widely held position is that the world is indeed a spinning oblate sphere and this is the model that is taught the world over.  There are plenty of books, scientific papers & journals over centuries which build up the evidence.  There are even photographs taken from space showing the planet as a globe and we can see other planets which are the same shape and follow similar orbits around the sun.

The claimants therefore are not the so called "ballers" but the flat earthers.  The burden of proof is on the proponents for a flat earth as they are the ones challenging the established and widely understood and accepted evidence that the world is an oblate spheroid. 

Images eminem, images. Not photographs! Lets jus get that clear. For the audience.

Wrong again eminem. You have just made the heliocentric model claim. Burden of proof lies with you, or anyone making those claims.

Those who are questioning the claims, are not obigated to provide a counter claim. They can simply question the ones you make. Or, as you put it, the caims made by their teachers, parents etc etc.

As i stated, you simply cannot back up your claims above about the show. Its just more beliefs you have without even investigating for yourself. Its the height of ignorance x

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21 minutes ago, paul's got wright said:

Images eminem, images. Not photographs! Lets jus get that clear. For the audience.

Wrong again eminem. You have just made the heliocentric model claim. Burden of proof lies with you, or anyone making those claims.

Those who are questioning the claims, are not obigated to provide a counter claim. They can simply question the ones you make. Or, as you put it, the caims made by their teachers, parents etc etc.

As i stated, you simply cannot back up your claims above about the show. Its just more beliefs you have without even investigating for yourself. Its the height of ignorance x

Thank you for just confirming what I said.  

Flat earthers find it easier to deny the accumulated knowledge of many years of scientific research, astronomy, polar expeditions, and space exploration than to actually provide a theoretical model that works and fits with what we can observe in the world around us.  

Proponents of a flat earth model will never accept that the burden of proof is on them because they know, deep down, that their observations and so called science can easily be debunked and do not work in reality.  

Additionally, the burden of proof does lie with them by your own definition as I am questioning there model!  I want to know how it works and to understand the evidence so that I can replicate their experiments and see the outcomes for myself.  

Here is a question for a flat earther... Where is Polaris when the observer is in the "southern hemisphere"?  In my experience of travelling to the "southern hemisphere" it is not visible at all?  Similarly I cannot locate the Southern Cross when in the "northern hemisphere", can you explain why this would be?

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Paul, your sneering at things you don't understand is your least admirable trait.

You clearly think thousands of people are simply lying to you and are involved in a huge conspiracy to delude you.  For what reason?

What is sad is you think there is nothing behind the graphics and art work used to explain what the scientists are doing, while in fact all the value comes from the work behind the scenes.

The scientists aren't that interested in pretty pictures - Sagan had to lobby hard to get the Pale Blue Dot picture for example; many scientists argued it was a waste of valuable resources and a scientific mission was better use of the camera than a pretty picture.

I have to be frank - I find your dismissal of NASA's science a supreme example of your arrogance.

You've never worked on a single project for decades, investing your entire life to designing and building something which requires a budget of the $100s of millions, which is undertaking a journey of millions of miles and where any error in the millions of calculations could result in making all that effort worthless.

All you can do is sneer at them.

I work with people who do undertake such projects, the effort required to push the absolute limits of engineering understanding to succeed in these types of projects is, in my view, incredibly admirable.  What they aspire to do is little short of incredible, but all you can do is dismiss it and make up stories that it is all fake.

Is everything fake - Cassini's measurements across France, Everest's across India, Cook's use of Harrison's chronometer to navigate the high seas with nothing but a sextant?

Your denial of evidence is the issue here and my biggest beef with you.

Edited by Chinahand
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1 hour ago, paul's got wright said:

China has clearly demonstrated his ignorance of the scientific method here,

This is why it is pointless continuing this.  I went through in mind-numbing detail how the work of Eratosthenes' built into the surveys of the age of enlightenment, laying out the evidence they had measured concerning how far you have to move to measure a one degree change in Polaris or the Midday sun (once declination is accounted for); and how this fits the hypothesis for an oblate spheroid and not a flat earth.

You can say I'm ignorant as much as you like, but it is you who is the denier in this not me.

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42 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

This is why it is pointless continuing this.  I went through in mind-numbing detail... 

So why do you continue to engage/encourage? Just what is the point? You do the mind-numbing detail, only to basically have the piss taken out of you. He says one thing and you go to great lengths to say another. All of it completely over his head, you must realise that. Give it up... 

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6 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

Thank you for just confirming what I said.  

Flat earthers find it easier to deny the accumulated knowledge of many years of scientific research, astronomy, polar expeditions, and space exploration than to actually provide a theoretical model that works and fits with what we can observe in the world around us.  

Proponents of a flat earth model will never accept that the burden of proof is on them because they know, deep down, that their observations and so called science can easily be debunked and do not work in reality.  

Additionally, the burden of proof does lie with them by your own definition as I am questioning there model!  I want to know how it works and to understand the evidence so that I can replicate their experiments and see the outcomes for myself.  

Here is a question for a flat earther... Where is Polaris when the observer is in the "southern hemisphere"?  In my experience of travelling to the "southern hemisphere" it is not visible at all?  Similarly I cannot locate the Southern Cross when in the "northern hemisphere", can you explain why this would be?

I never. Read it again.

"Flat eathers" is a misnomer emmy. No need to be a flat earther to question the heliocentric claims. And you cannot generalise in such a way, that groups all people into one definition which suits you and your biased opinions.

You can waffle all you want, but i asked you to link us to the show where the sci3ntific proof was provided, and they ignored it? They will not accept anything unless it is scientific evidence. A fine standard, dont you know.

If you cant back up claims, dont make them.

Wrong again emmy. If someone proposes a flat earth model, SCIENTIFICALLY, then the burden of proof is on them. But, not if they just offer it as a belief. You can believe what you want. The claim is the globe, burden of proof remains with the claimant, not people who question the globe.

Its called scrutiny, its a healthy aspect of science.

You are not questioning "their" model. Most dont subscribe to any model, certainly no one on nathans panel does. And there are various models proposed by flat eathers, which they disagree on, whilst remaining flat earthers. So there isnt just one model.

I have to explain these basics to you because of your own lazy ignorance towards the subject mater.

So if you are questioning a model which one is it? Flat,concave,middle earthers, infinite plane, dome, looping pac man?? The answer is, you dont know because you haven't got a clue. You are simply too lazy. But you have to come here, your faith compels you, regardless of how little you understand the implications.

I will link some videos to attempt to give you more insight to your questions for flat earthers. Also, you could just search yourself any question flat earth related, to see what they say.

Its not something they all agree on,having a model they share etc. There are many differing models, opinions and theories.

But they all agree on one thing! None of them believe in the model they were taught as little innocent children x

 

 

Edited by paul's got wright
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