Jump to content
Coronavirus topics renamed and some locked. No new topics. ×
Manx Forums, Live Chat, Blogs & Classifieds for the Isle of Man
Gee Cee

Horse Trams

Recommended Posts

 

I would think the downfall might perhaps be attributed to the fact that somebody, a very long time ago, invented something called the motor car.

 

And package holidays.

Yes, and just how short sighted were the Spanish not to instal horse trams all down the shore line of the Costa Blanca?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Questions

1/ When did the horse trams become unprofitable and why? (If you don't know for absolute certainty, then don't bother answering. I can guess too, but is it factual?)

2/ In the last 50 years, what profits or losses have been made and was there a reason why?

3/ What efforts have been done to make these profitable and how?

4/ Would other private companies be interested in either running the operation or making a donation?

5/ Would farmers or horse owners be able to assist?

6/ Would making the trams into a charity be helpful?

7/ Can people throughout the world make a donation towards the upkeep or assist with running costs?

 

I'm sure that there's other questions that could be asked, but here's seven for now and if these can be answered by people who have the factual answers and not done by guesswork or by silly answers, then let's see what this is able to produce.

 

1. I reckon 2001 but I'm not absolutely certain.

2. Do I need to list the profits or losses for every year and the reasons? You want 50 years worth?

 

1965 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1966 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1967 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1968 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1969 - Fucked up on drugs. Didn't even know my name, let alone the profit/loss of the horse trams.

1970 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1971 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1972 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1973 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1974 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1975 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1976 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1977 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1978 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1979 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1980 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1981 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1982 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1983 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1984 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1985 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1986 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1987 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1988 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1989 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1990 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1991 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1992 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1993 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1994 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1995 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1996 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1997 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1998 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1999 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1990 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1991 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1992 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1993 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1994 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1995 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1996 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1997 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1998 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

1999 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

2000 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

2001 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

2002 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

2003 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

2004 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

2005 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

2006 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

2007 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

2008 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

2009 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

2010 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

2011 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

2012 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

2013 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

2014 - Don't know and not sure of the reason.

 

3. Don't know.

4. No

5. No, but maybe yes.

6. No.

7. Yeah if they want, but they probably don't.

 

 

Hope that helps.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I once worked the deck chairs in their dying years, took about £8 all day long sitting doing fuck all and then got quite pissed that the old bloke running them only paid me £3 for a days work so binned it after one day, it was obvious to me 20+ years ago that the douglas promenade holiday experience was no longer sustainable as a business, like the deck chars at the time it was built it was economically viable but should have been dropped to a weekend only service at least a decade ago.

Edited by j2bad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They've never done anything to make it more of an experience. Like dressing up the drivers rather than hi vis jackets, or doibg tie ins with the railways, or drive a tram day or teddy bears picnics...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I once worked the deck chairs in their dying years, took about £8 all day long sitting doing fuck all and then got quite pissed that the old bloke running them only paid me £3 for a days work so binned it after one day, it was obvious to me 20+ years ago that the douglas promenade holiday experience was no longer sustainable as a business, like the deck chars at the time it was built it was economically viable but should have been dropped to a weekend only service at least a decade ago.

The deckkies used to be the best fiddle going for years a few years before. Get pissed most of the time. Make sure only half the people got a ticket, and then when they brought the deck chair back ask them to give you the ticket back. None of the receipts had been audited for about 40 years. Best cash generating opportunity the IOM ever had for entrepreneurial 17 year olds. You can only guess how much the bigger crooks in the Corpy were taking out of it in cash for years if a kid could make £50 a week in cash on top of their wages and nobody ever noticed or even asked a question.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny how buses got rid of conductors but horse trams had to take them on on H&S grounds, IIRC...?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see as to why the Council wish to pull the plug on the trams, but what strategies have they implemented to make the trams successful?

 

Reading the Isle of Discovery booklet, these are 'the worlds oldest surviving horse trams that date back to 1876 and with many original cars still in use, and apart from a hiatus during WW2, has operated almost continually'.

 

I can understand the problems that rate payers would complain about as also the flow of traffic trying to get past, but I do not think Douglas Council have been playing fair in all of this and are unable to think up other ways of making them profitable and rather than trying, they cut their losses.

 

I have to say that I do not believe that any operators of the trams should be paid by the tax payer as this is the main cost factor and some other way of operating cover would be required.

 

Questions

1/ When did the horse trams become unprofitable and why? (If you don't know for absolute certainty, then don't bother answering. I can guess too, but is it factual?)

2/ In the last 50 years, what profits or losses have been made and was there a reason why?

3/ What efforts have been done to make these profitable and how?

4/ Would other private companies be interested in either running the operation or making a donation?

5/ Would farmers or horse owners be able to assist?

6/ Would making the trams into a charity be helpful?

7/ Can people throughout the world make a donation towards the upkeep or assist with running costs?

 

I'm sure that there's other questions that could be asked, but here's seven for now and if these can be answered by people who have the factual answers and not done by guesswork or by silly answers, then let's see what this is able to produce.

The only fact that matters is that my rates shouldn't pay for them.

 

Government should under MNH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I once worked the deck chairs in their dying years, took about £8 all day long sitting doing fuck all and then got quite pissed that the old bloke running them only paid me £3 for a days work so binned it after one day, it was obvious to me 20+ years ago that the douglas promenade holiday experience was no longer sustainable as a business, like the deck chars at the time it was built it was economically viable but should have been dropped to a weekend only service at least a decade ago.

The deckkies used to be the best fiddle going for years a few years before. Get pissed most of the time. Make sure only half the people got a ticket, and then when they brought the deck chair back ask them to give you the ticket back. None of the receipts had been audited for about 40 years. Best cash generating opportunity the IOM ever had for entrepreneurial 17 year olds. You can only guess how much the bigger crooks in the Corpy were taking out of it in cash for years if a kid could make £50 a week in cash on top of their wages and nobody ever noticed or even asked a question.

Your bang on with the deckchair fiddles i remember a very famous decky who made more cash than the corpy in th early sixties,could'nt go wrong in them days,that was ONE of the fiddles THEN how many are going on now ??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only fact that matters is that my rates shouldn't pay for them.

 

Government should under MNH.

 

 

 

Douglas Rate Payers need to be aware that they are not going to save anything as a result and unless central government pick up the tab you are actually going to end up paying more for less.

 

I would prefer that the Douglas Bay Tramway be preserved along with the Steam and Electric Railway as part of a unique cultural and social history project and accept that tax money will, and should, be used to achieve this. However, the Douglas Rate Payers should not go around thinking that this will see a reduction, They will still pay the same rates but maybe some more tax.

 

Maybe those of us in support of the Horse Tramway should try to get them recognised as a world heritage site and get the cars removed from the promenade.

 

We are a small Island and massively over dependant upon the car.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Time to shutter the electric and steam too. Only gravy Choo choo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Time to shutter the electric and steam too. Only gravy Choo choo

But where does it stop?

 

Museums, Laxey wheel, Cregneash, motor vehicle racing or rallies, Tourism department, upkeep of glens and walkways?

 

Basically, any thing or anywhere that requires staffing or coverage by employed staff including road closures would have to be looked at.

 

The trams as poorly positioned as they are now compared to decades ago, are part of our uniqueness and charm to our visitors and I believe that the trams are something that should be retained (although not as they are now) and that Douglas should not carry the burden alone.

 

One thing for sure is that the Governments Enterprise Isle initiative wants to increase the population by 1,000 a year to 'support the increase in pension costs' and this creates jobs but also an additional strain on the roads.

As Douglas is the main entry point by sea, the traffic congestion can only increase and if getting rid of the trams was given as one reason to assist a better flow of traffic, then the viewpoint would be reasonable although it might prove to be a valuable asset in the future if their lane is unclogged.

 

IMO, the trams need relocating to allow a better flow of traffic through Douglas and should be open to private investors. If privatisation of the trams is unlikely, then Douglas Council should not have to carry the full burden although costing of staff would need to be addressed with possibly the positions being of a temporary nature.

 

Listening to Mr Christian about the cost of the rails and the £4 million pound cost, then I agree it's to expensive and an alternative would be that the trams use tyres, instead of being restricted to that of lines, which would give them usage of the walkway instead of the roadway.

Edited by manxy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's happened to the horses?

 

Bullet through the brain, perhaps.

Edited by enbee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The trams as poorly positioned as they are now compared to decades ago, are part of our uniqueness and charm to our visitors

 

Uh, they're in the same place.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd suggest anything that doesn't generate profit should be shut down. That'll mean the end of electric trams, and a few of the museums and sites. We already have for twenty years had more than 50 per cent of people not born on the Isle so screw all of the manx language stuff too. I really hate what older manx have allowed to happen to this island.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really hate what older manx have allowed to happen to this island.

You really think they/we had any say in it...? Money carries a lot of weight.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...