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Ceaseless Change

Public enquiry in to last year's Tholt-y-Will road death

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I'm not suggesting we train people as soldiers.

 

What I am saying is that the basic level of Forces training (that first 8-10 weeks) is designed to instill certain change in that person which leads to them being more disciplined, take pride in themselves and what they do, and it gives a platform to embed skills.

 

Those first 8-10 weeks, from experience, change you. For the better.

 

Part of that though is that you wanted to be there? Surely people who are not interested in this experience will rebel and cause more trouble, unless there is a threat of more punishment...... which would be what?

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Personally I am agnostic on what the solution is. But whatever genuinely works to reduce first offending and reoffending, is what we need to do.

If punishing for the sake of punishment is demonstrably less effective at reducing reoffending than giving criminals a hug and telling them they are beautiful little flowers, I couldn't care less. The end result is what matters, because that end result is measured in the misery, pain and death criminality causes for others.

 

Whatever WORKS - do that.

 

If there are people (and I know there are - and not a few) who want to exchange those methods that are most effective at reducing reoffending - i.e. at reducing the costs to innocent people - so that you can feel a personal sense of satisfaction that "the scum are getting their just desserts", then I'll call it what it is - it's not just anti-evidence and irrational, it's selfish.

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If there are people (and I know there are - and not a few) who want to exchange those methods that are most effective at reducing reoffending - i.e. at reducing the costs to innocent people - so that you can feel a personal sense of satisfaction that "the scum are getting their just desserts", then I'll call it what it is - it's not just anti-evidence and irrational, it's selfish.

 

I reckon almost everyone secretly thinks that way. At least sometimes. Its impossible not to feel that innate sense of violent retributive justice kindled when you read that a child has been raped and murdered.The most rational of minds would struggle to keep the desire to see the perpetrator horribly destroyed in check.

 

But there are those for whom this behavioural response governs their thinking on justice generally. There's still a lot of it around.

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Its impossible not to feel that innate sense of violent retributive justice kindled when you read that a child has been raped and murdered.The most rational of minds would struggle to keep the desire to see the perpetrator horribly destroyed in check.

 

 

It's not impossible.... I can only speak for myself of course. But it's not impossible.

 

The desire for vengeance I think is a bit like jealousy - some people just don't have that urge, or have learned to let that urge go, and others who are not in that place often find that very hard to comprehend. What do you mean you don't get jealous? What do you mean you wouldn't happily see that murderer beaten to death?

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The primary function of prison is to punish, not rehabilitate.

 

This is the crux of the matter.

 

Is the Isle of Man choosing to punish or rehabilitate criminals as a priority, if we choose to punish we can't then retrospectively judge efficiency based on rehabilitation criteria or vice versa. It's a policy decision first and then implementation not have your cake and eat it time based on past events and political agenda.

 

Exactly.

 

In the Isle of Man we have, generally, low level criminals in prison.

 

I'm not fully aware of the statistics of who is inside at the moment but i'd hazard a guess we have a majority of people in there for minor or persistant minor drug offences, large drug hauls, the odd fraudster or finance related crime and the usual random drunkeness habitually and or violence linked.

 

Most of these people need harsh punishment. So that it is deters a trip to prison and they are motivated to avoid ever going back inside.

 

I personally would like to see the prison run in military manner whereby inmates are subject to what amounts to New Entrant Training level in the Forces. They regularly decontstruct people and build them into what they want them to be, giving them standards and disipline and some self worth. Having been through that process (Forces, not prison!) I genuinely believe it could make a difference to a number of people who enter that prison.

 

Rather than sitting in a nice cell will all the nice to have things available and it being a borderline holiday for some.

 

1 in 10 prisoners is a former soldier.

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Surely this has much more to do with the shameful way we (fail to) care for veterans, than it does to do with the character building benefits (or not) of boot camp.

 

In a very straight forward way, this is also about a lack of proper rehabilitation.

Edited by Ceaseless Change
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This is exactly what it is about. The Forces have been historically very poor at looking after ex service people.

 

Many are completely fine. But others can find it very hard to adjust to civlian life. Especially if they have either been in the Forces a long time and/or have been the subject of particularly stressful situations in combat.

 

However, you've picked up on my point about the basic training, which is still something I believe (as a system) could benefit people in prison.

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I think car chases by the police should be stopped. The risk to the innocent public is too great, and other opportunities of apprehension are almost sure to present themselves.

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Hahhahaha my granddad had his car stolen in the 80's, they wrote off 2 police cars chasing it...that super speedy mini...

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Although there wasn't a car chase in this instance.

 

Really? I didn't know that, I thought there was and that the miscreant was trying to escape. My mistake.

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