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Max Power

Ted Heath

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As far as Heath's sexual predilection didn't run to kiddie fiddling then today IMO it is of little importance other than to those who delight to run down Conservatives at every opportunity. What I believe is a far greater importance are the actions of Norman John Worthington. IMO in spite of all the denials there is just too much smoke around this individual for there not to be fire.

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If he did anything. It's still a big if. Still nothing substantiated despite the publicity. They should not have gone public unless they had firm proof. And if they have proof, why are they not as keen to publish that as they are to name him? Just a load of heresay to date, and the police had the brass neck to hold a press conference outside his house in Salisbury to invite more to jump on the bandwagon. Despicable actions by them as in the case of tipping off the BBC to film them searching Cliff Richard's house. There needs to be proof as there was in the case of Savile. Even then there will be those who have smelt compensation and jumped on the bandwagon.

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The first allegation against Heath that I can remember comes from the mid-70's. He has been implicated in the alleged abuse of children at Kincora Boy's Home in Northern Ireland, carried out by various politicians, community leaders, army officers and other public figures, including members of the IRA and UDA et al. The house was allegedly bugged and had video-surveillance installed by the 'security services'. The abuse was allowed to continue whilst 'evidence' was gathered from the tapes to be used as 'leverage' in dealing with those of influence. It is also alleged that Heath was involved in the systematic abuse (of the worst order) of the boys housed there, for years.

 

It was first exposed by Colin Wallace, a ranking Intel officer and whistle-blower, in the British Army, and featured extensively in the satirical magazine, 'Private Eye', which older Eye readers may remember.

 

It is a complicated story, with many allegations stemming from Wallace's whistle-blowing (Wallace was coincidently sent to jail for manslaughter; a crime he denied and claimed was a fit-up); some of them pointing to a conspiracy by the 'security' services and I believe the Kincora affair, and what may come out will be featured a lot more in the coming future. It is at the present time, and from its very beginning, I believe, been/being very much played-down by the media.

 

It makes fascinating reading, IMO, for anyone interested. Imagine the power that could be wielded with such evidence? The whole affair is a 'house of cards' if the allegations are true. The British army wanted to expose it all but were over-ruled by MI5.

 

It would appear that in the pursuit of the intelligence-gathering, the services allowed the abuse to continue, un-abated, while boys suffered the most horrendous sexual degradation at the hands of VIP's from many areas of society.

 

Edited to add; I originally provided links to the Belfast Telegraph who are giving this story publicity but none worked! That's where the info is ...

Edited by quilp
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I don't think any British PM would have been cavorting around Northern Ireland at the height of the troubles? Heath could be implicated in as much that he may have been aware of the operation to trap IRA and others?

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No doubt we can expect the proof very shortly then. That would be the time to judge.

Why are you so steadfastly in Heaths corner? As Quilp says this stuff goes back to Private Eye in the mid seventies and has been well covered in relation to the Kincora Home. Is he your great uncle or something? I don't see what's wrong with the press covering it and they must be able to support their claims enough to publish. He never married, had no kids, so it's not like there's anyone around to get upset about it all.

Edited by oldmanxfella
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So, everyone who never married and had kids is fair game? That seems to me to be the crux of everything here, not the fact that allegations which follow people in those circumstances were not followed up at the time? Perhaps there's a good reason that they weren't, perhaps they were seen to be untrue? These things get a life of their own once a suggestion of wrong doing is made against someone such as the PM.

 

It's a bit like tittle tattle about teachers at school, usually groundless and based on some innocent occurrence in the dim and distant past. That doesn't stop the children from perpetuating the old cliches.

 

I'd be really surprised if Ted Heath has been found to have behaved badly, let alone committed half of the suggestions being made on here. But then again, conspiracy theories can work both ways.

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In recent times I've found it uncomfortable that we are judging the sexual mores of some sixty years ago by today's rediculously pc standards of behaviour. However in 1990 I lived in Thame and a neighbour was a nurse at Stoke Mandeville hospital and she knew lots about Savilles unsavoury tendencies. But thinking it illegal enough to report was clearly a step too far - for that time and place.

 

I would like all those who may have suffered to get legal redress. But an almost lynchmob attitude, clearly driven by tabloid hysteria, is not the way to go about it....

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No doubt we can expect the proof very shortly then. That would be the time to judge.

Why are you so steadfastly in Heaths corner? As Quilp says this stuff goes back to Private Eye in the mid seventies and has been well covered in relation to the Kincora Home. Is he your great uncle or something? I don't see what's wrong with the press covering it and they must be able to support their claims enough to publish. He never married, had no kids, so it's not like there's anyone around to get upset about it all.

 

I am not "in Heath's corner" as you put it at all. If there is proof then let us see it. As I said yesterday, I am against the public lynching of anyone by the police in the media without firm evidence. How would you like it to think that after you die your reputation was going to be put through this wringer like this? Whether he had kids of his own or not, there will be relatives or friends to consider, aside from which it is just a totally wrongheaded way to conduct an investigation. You get the evidence then go public. You don't go public asking for accusations.

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Fair comment Woolley, there have been a few people who have had their reputations besmirched by false allegations and subsequently found to be blameless , the tabloid press do occasionally issue a "correction" ( a few lines on the bottom of an inside page) but the individual by that time has suffered by being ostracised from society and quite often financially (in defending themselves and insofar as employment contracts have been terminated).

 

I'm not in anyones "corner" but happen to think that it's a tad unfair to identify publicly the alleged perpetrator but allow the accuser to retain anonymity ( even if subsequently is is established they told a pack of lies ).

 

OMF , Heath may not have any family but how would you feel if you were the friend/associate of someone who was falsely accused and then people assumed you must have "known" or perhaps been "up to the same perverted activity?

 

One has only to read posts on this site where all those 'involved in freemasonry/follow a religious belief are assumed by some to have the same aims and objectives/ social failings etc etc ( I am not and never have been a freemason and am not a member of any religious organisationflowers.gif )

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To be totally clear, I have no brief for Ted Heath at all. Possibly the worst PM of the 20th century and cursed forever over the EU. If he turns out to be guilty of wrongdoing then his associates deserve whatever comes to them.

 

But that's where it ends. Everyone is entitled to due process and the media hysteria surrounding this whole affair is a total and utter disgrace. The speculation is straight out of the gutter. The conduct of the police is no better and deserving of extreme censure.

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No doubt we can expect the proof very shortly then. That would be the time to judge.

Why are you so steadfastly in Heaths corner? As Quilp says this stuff goes back to Private Eye in the mid seventies and has been well covered in relation to the Kincora Home. Is he your great uncle or something? I don't see what's wrong with the press covering it and they must be able to support their claims enough to publish. He never married, had no kids, so it's not like there's anyone around to get upset about it all.

 

very apologetic indeed x

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No doubt we can expect the proof very shortly then. That would be the time to judge.

Why are you so steadfastly in Heaths corner? As Quilp says this stuff goes back to Private Eye in the mid seventies and has been well covered in relation to the Kincora Home. Is he your great uncle or something? I don't see what's wrong with the press covering it and they must be able to support their claims enough to publish. He never married, had no kids, so it's not like there's anyone around to get upset about it all.

I am not "in Heath's corner" as you put it at all. If there is proof then let us see it. As I said yesterday, I am against the public lynching of anyone by the police in the media without firm evidence. How would you like it to think that after you die your reputation was going to be put through this wringer like this? Whether he had kids of his own or not, there will be relatives or friends to consider, aside from which it is just a totally wrongheaded way to conduct an investigation. You get the evidence then go public. You don't go public asking for accusations.

Do you view Savill as a predatory paedophile?

 

The reason I ask is that there is no factual evidence/proof he was other than thousands of allegations and complaints and testimony and plenty of heresay that he was known for it.

 

Depending on what you believe you could end up with the same type of evidence for Heath.

 

I have to say I find it alarming that someone can publish such disturbing allegations in print and not a peep is heard or any action taken. If that was you and you knew it was impossible to be true you would litigate. Heath could certainly afford it.

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