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Douglas East By-election 2016


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Great points Sultan. You can add to that our hilarious version of the House of Lords. A retirement home for failed politicians who would still quite like to receive substantial amounts of free money f

I agree with you here. Let's face it. We vote for independents and once inside they form a party (COMIN) with a block vote and a unified vision in terms of collective responsibility anyway. That is a

Lets see; it's copyright free and could be lifted from here! The fact is that currently we have a system that facilitates an elected dictatorship; where the single vision that is being delivered in Pa

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It's the absolute refutation of Robertshaw's recent comments about political parties on the IOM, and the absolutely clear reason why we need them. If this was a horse race, you'd shoot a couple of them and return the rest to the stable. It's not worth even putting them up before the public.

 

This isn't politics; not in any meaningful sense of the word anyway.

 

This is what it's going to be like come next year's general election too. Make no mistake.

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Just the usual horseshit. We've got churches, trade unions, business cartels associations, all sorts of professional interest groups etc., plus the post-election party formed by CoMin after each election. The Island is effectively depoliticized without parties. What can the electorate get behind and sign up to without some sort of party prospectus ? How the hell can they organize or hope to effect any policy or change through the Tynwald Handicap Stakes every five years ? Without political parties we effectively don't have any real politics - and that's why many people like it.

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Just the usual horseshit. We've got churches, trade unions, business cartels associations, all sorts of professional interest groups etc., plus the post-election party formed by CoMin after each election. The Island is effectively depoliticized without parties. What can the electorate get behind and sign up to without some sort of party prospectus ? How the hell can they organize or hope to effect any policy or change through the Tynwald Handicap Stakes every five years ? Without political parties we effectively don't have any real politics - and that's why many people like it.

 

I agree with you here. Let's face it. We vote for independents and once inside they form a party (COMIN) with a block vote and a unified vision in terms of collective responsibility anyway. That is a 'party' in every respect other than word - delivering the personal strategy of the Chief Minister. I would rather vote for a party in the first place than what happens now. Which is vote for some 'Nice bloke' only to find out that he's very easily bullied and subsequently, in order to further his own career, turns into some COMIN sheep towing the COMIN party line.

 

Let's also accept the reality that we use the "there's no party politics in the IOM - they're all independent candidates" line purely to placate business as it is thought this conveys the impression that there will be no wild swings to Labour that might affect our favourable tax system or change the reasons why a company came here in the first place. So the belief is that it gives confidence. But actually that's bullshit. What it means is that nothing of note can ever happen in terms of delivering structural change for anyone else in the Island. Bermuda manages with a party politics system and hasn't seen the finance sector leave even when a traditional Labour Government got into power. Without party politics I genuinely believe we are doomed as there is no core ideology, belief or strategy for anyone to get behind (which aligns with their personal beliefs or values) when they vote for a candidate. That's what the party system does - it ties a basic ideology and core values to the sort of things a candidate will stand for once elected. The end result of COMIN and our non party system is an effective elected dictatorship where the CM gets to drive anything he wants through Keys via COMIN - and the people you voted for have to either sell out any principles that they sold to you in order to get in for a seat at the CMs table - or they have to sit on the sidelines holding onto those principles and be completely ineffective because they refuse to sell out.

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That's bob on Sultan. A perfect description of where we are (and why we are) down to the last syllable. Send it to Richard Butt.....maybe he'll print it in his rag, next to Bernie's rant.

Lets see; it's copyright free and could be lifted from here! The fact is that currently we have a system that facilitates an elected dictatorship; where the single vision that is being delivered in Parliament isn't a party vision (so it's neither left leaning, or right leaning, nor focussing from a green perspective, or libertarian or whatever) but is the personal vision of the CM. The natural flaw in this is if you have a corrupt or a poor CM then you have a corrupt or poor Parliamentary system that can be directly controlled from above (via the CM through block votes in COMIN etc) not from below (the people). A party at least means you can vote for a candidate who aligns with core set of principles that you also believe in, and it's more likely that the candidate will have to demonstrate those core principles in the way they behave (and the policies they support) once in. With an independent they can basically do what the fuck they like. There are no core values they have to pin to the mast and you're having a wild punt into the dark as to how they will behave, and what they will vote for, once in. In truth most end up doing what they are told by the CM whose policies are supported and usually upheld through collective responsibility and the block vote. Also the ones who refuse to sell out what they sold to the electorate are sidelined and effectively can't get anything through - ever.

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Great points Sultan. You can add to that our hilarious version of the House of Lords. A retirement home for failed politicians who would still quite like to receive substantial amounts of free money from the taxpayer, without having to go through the bother of explaining what the hell they believe in or stand for anymore to any of those taxpayers.

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I have a borderline semi-literate manifesto in the post from a Jon Joughin.

 

According to him, there's a lack of "creditability" to our government structure. He also thinks we should change the "electrol role" and believes the Castle Mona Hotel is a building with "historic providence".

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Did anyone hear a reasoned explanation from Messrs Robertshaw & Quayle as to why they feel political parties have no role in Manx politics?

I would have liked to have heard their answers. As has been said above Manx people have been socially conditioned to believe that 'independent' candidates are the answer to democracy when in fact, since the new executive government system was introduced in the late 1980s all the executive structure has done is perpetuate a continual holding pattern on real politics. It is also allowing one person (rather than one party or one mindset or ideology) to have a Putin like grip over Manx politics and economics with an ineffectual upper house looking on from the sidelines. It's an autocratic control system, not a system that facilitates democracy.

 

Starting a debate on the merits of a party political system was entirely right. Unfortunately Liberal Vannin were the wrong people to call it. It should have been the PAG. The Island needs a political party debate but without Liberal Vannins baggage: Peter is a legend and an honest politician, Kate too I think. But there is too much baggage associated with their combined histories and reputations in Keys. The party system needs a re-brand without that (ill deserved in many cases) baggage. Any group that might be successful in achieving change and driving a party system through can only do so without the political baggage that Liberal Vannin carries. Sad to say but true. The best future is for all concerned to walk away, embrace the idea that there is a bigger picture here, and re-configure opposition to the status quo in a cleaner format. Then properly come out fighting against the current system. It wouldn't take much in reality. But whatever happens next has to have little direct connection to what's gone on in the past. Sadly Liberal Vannin isn't going to be taken seriously enough to allow a proper debate to be had.

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listening to MR discussion, I don't understand the sacred cow of the finance industry, who make billions yet it is reported that they will jump ship if they have to pay a penny tax :lol:

 

join the club !

Nobody is making billions here anymore from a corporate perspective. The obvious answer is to put up some income taxes rather than applying service charges and levies which disproportionately affect the lower earners. There could be a trade off if government could be bothered trying to negotiate one.

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I got talking to a young guy once and he was deriding my work. I asked what he did, "Finance industry" he replied, "Oh what do you do exactly?" "I'm a data inputer", "Typist then, (in best Al Murray style)" , "No, I input data", getting irate now, "Onto a keyboard from a bit of paper?", "Yes" and a look of despair on his face.
As you can tell I've not a lot of time for the finance industry. Maybe that's the answer though, get rid and we won't need 'Allan's army' or 20k new workers.

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