Jump to content

Horse Trams to go

Recommended Posts

FFS! Someone needs to grow a pair and get a grip of the business.


Unfortunately it won't be those currently running it because turkeys don't vote for Xmas.


There are a lot of countries in Europe where their name is synonymous with inefficient government and public service.


How long before "Manx Disease" makes the top spot?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 347
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Was it in the 1970s that the Government asked if they could take over the horse tramway as a tourist attraction?   The Corporation, in their infinite wisdom, told them to get lost.   This is the l

What they need is Google Driverless Trams.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-35384707   Says here that the horse trams carried 60,000 passengers last year and made a loss of over £260,000!   Either hay has gone up since t

Posted Images



MonkeyBoy - you don't need to make all these assumptions. The Income and Expenditure for 2014 are available in Douglas Council Accounts






Employee costs 211


Property & fixed plant 41


Transport and plant 20


Supplies 30


Central support services 12


Depreciation 10


Total Tramways expenditure 324




Traffic receipts (77)


Rover Ticket Income from Dept of Community, Culture & Leisure (34)


Other income (5)


Total Tramways Income (116)



Net deficit charged to General Rate Fund 208



As for fares they are basically £3 (in 2015) according to this leaflet, but not everyone will pay that and locals who have season tickets may make many journeys for just one payment.


When considering employment costs you need to consider more than just wages, notably NI. £211,000 is still quite a lot though when you consider that many of the employees are seasonal.

So the trams have been running for 140 years yet they are still paying £41K per year on property. Fools & their money!

Have you ever owned a building, and paid to run it?



Have you ever seen them doing up the building in question? Maybe a splash of paint once every ten years. That's maybe £50 worth of paint buckets and brushes. Let's be liberal and put in a £35,000 ladder. Where's the rest of the money going in "running" the building?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the mane point here is central government and local government need to buck up their ideas, stop using the threat of doing away with the horse trams as a political tool in their petty inter-empire power/money squabble, and grow up. As Rob Callister has been saying for some time now, we need to once and for all set out what is paid by taxes and what is paid by rates and apportion responsibility accordingly. You can't use our heritage and visitor economy in this way. The Corporation started it but Bell responded in kind when he should have acted the grown up and sorted this out responsibly. I suspect the Chief Minister and the Douglas councillors have all been watching too many spaghetti westerns and are acting out a juvenile "let's call each other's bluff" at sundown fantasy. They need to grow up and do the job they're paid to do, which includes maintaining a stable visitor economy.

Edited by Englishman
  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites


I don't see the logic of putting the price up via a 'tax'. It just puts more people off coming here.


Running the horse trams on a break even basis could be done by getting rid of two or three senior management positions.


Makes you wonder what the "scale" of the "management team" to run the horse trams actually is? If it's anything like the Railways "Management" structure that made its way onto these boards a couple of years back then it'll be no wonder it's losing money.


They should move one or two them up to North Promenade, Ramsey. Nice long, flat mile or so, nothing too arduous for the horses, gets them off busy Douglas Prom to let Gawne get on with paving the prom with gold and keeps "something" of the horse trams. DOI have apparently already bought new rails in? So a single track would be possible? Win win.


As a die hard cynic, whilst Mr. Gawne assures on that 'no undue pressure was brought to bear on the Corporation in relation to the closing of the Horse Trams', I can not help but wonder whether some other 'inducement' was offered so they can press on with their stupid and unaffordable promenade scheme - without the faff of worrying about where the tram tracks are going to go.


Or is that a coincidence ?


The word 'team' is a dead giveaway. I fail to see how something like the horse tram operations need anything other than a single manager (that means 'one' person for anyone in Government who may happen to read this thread, and may be struggling with such an advanced concept).


In my opinion , the same goes for the Steam Railway and Electric - one competent manager should be capable of running those - let's be generous and have one for each. It does not need the great hierarchy of staff who currently infest Banks Circus, and who contribute mightily to the drain on Gov. finances without offering much in return.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites




Last time I took a trip on the horse tram was about 4-5 years ago. I seem to recall that it was the wide end of either £3 or a fiver for an adult one way from Strathallan to the Sea Terminal.


As I've posted before, I wonder what the staffing costs are, given that IIRC they had to take on a conductor as well instead of just a driver, I think, on H&S grounds a few years back.

H/s my arse,are they employing LEGLESS fucking drivers who cannot move of their fucking arses.fuck.



No, honest, I'm sure it was something to do with the risk of the driver having to continually alight into the traffic on the prom to collect fares from passengers behind him. Similarly, the conductor has to watch out for the safety of passengers getting on and off in the traffic.


Something like that, anyway.


Even so, they are casual staff.


Lets say two trams run 10 hours a day from May to September inclusive (the season may be longer but it needn't be) Lets say there are two trams running at all times & someone manning the stables. Let's say they get paid £10 an hour.


So staff costs per day are £500. If they run seven days a week for five months that's approx 150 days, so staffing costs for the season are £75K. Lets say they employ one person full time all year round to look after the horses on £25K and someone else full time year round on the maintenance of the trams, rails etc, also on a generous £25K.


So we have a total staffing cost for the year of £125K.


Now the Corpy say they carry 60K passenger a year which it has been suggested cost upwards of £3. At £3 this would bring in £180K per year. The Corpy also say the horse trams are loosing £260K per year. So the total cost of the operation they are claiming is £440K per year.


So the difference between the operating costs and staffing costs is a whopping £315K a year. OK you have feed for the horses, a few planks of wood & pots of paint to buy for the trams, but £315K FFS.


I tell you, there are suits involved here, I'm sure of it.



Staffing cost is double that Monkey Boy


for some unknown reason

Link to post
Share on other sites

£10k Depreciation of what exactly


Think you're required to 'depreciate' buildings nowadays, even tho' as a rule they don't lose value

Edited by Donald Trumps
Link to post
Share on other sites


£10k Depreciation of what exactly

Think you're required to 'depreciate' buildings nowadays, even tho' as a rule they don't lose value


I don't think that is correct.


The depreciation will relate to fixed assets (other than property).


A property is often held at cost in the accounts unless it is specifically revalued.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Create New...